Rr07
- Thread starter p m
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GotRovr said:
It was a highlight for me too! THey were stumped when they first saw it, it's a long way from home. It brought back memories for Bill and Steve, Ex-Pats who had to drive them as apprentice mechanics back in England. THey both said the same thing-going out on calls at 3 AM in the pissing ice cold rain!
FYI
This discussion was playing out on the SCLR board until Nathan Woods locked the board to prevent further discussion: http://www.sclr.org/cgi-bin/roverboard/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=001196
The entire text, as this one has been threatened for deletion, can also be found at: http://www.expeditionexchange.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1018
This discussion was playing out on the SCLR board until Nathan Woods locked the board to prevent further discussion: http://www.sclr.org/cgi-bin/roverboard/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=001196
The entire text, as this one has been threatened for deletion, can also be found at: http://www.expeditionexchange.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1018
Wow, I'm beginning to wish that I had never written ANYTHING in this thread.
My apologies to everyone involved...I've never attended RR07 and, after all of this, probably never will! (though I would love to go to Death Valley)
Oh, but I do still love the photo that Ho's daughter took (I think it was hers) of the teddy-bear. Adorable and light-spirited compared to everything else.
My apologies to everyone involved...I've never attended RR07 and, after all of this, probably never will! (though I would love to go to Death Valley)
Oh, but I do still love the photo that Ho's daughter took (I think it was hers) of the teddy-bear. Adorable and light-spirited compared to everything else.
My impression of RR has always been positive, but I have never been so what do I know.
I am chalking this whole thing up to what I will call PBRESD or Post Big Rover Event Stress Disorder. It happens all the time after all big events. It is also why I like small groups on private missions.
I am chalking this whole thing up to what I will call PBRESD or Post Big Rover Event Stress Disorder. It happens all the time after all big events. It is also why I like small groups on private missions.
Let me ask you guys this....
If you guys all parked for lunch and a ranger/cop/or whatever they are called in CA that watch the trails were to pull up and hang out with you guys while you were eating lunch would you be drinking beer in front of them and then let them watch you get back into your truck and drive away?
What do you think would happen if they saw that?
Edit: you know what, forget it.. It's pointless... Some time in the future when I'm reading about how this trail/area got shut down I certainly won't wonder why. My only hope is that if the rangers (or whom ever) do see these post and see the pics that they take down the specific names or get licence plate numbers so they can go after specific people instead of looking for a white land rover or any land rover for that matter and ruining the day of people that do respect where they are..
If you guys all parked for lunch and a ranger/cop/or whatever they are called in CA that watch the trails were to pull up and hang out with you guys while you were eating lunch would you be drinking beer in front of them and then let them watch you get back into your truck and drive away?
What do you think would happen if they saw that?
Edit: you know what, forget it.. It's pointless... Some time in the future when I'm reading about how this trail/area got shut down I certainly won't wonder why. My only hope is that if the rangers (or whom ever) do see these post and see the pics that they take down the specific names or get licence plate numbers so they can go after specific people instead of looking for a white land rover or any land rover for that matter and ruining the day of people that do respect where they are..
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I need to check it out. What I've been looking for is a thinner reamer, needle, and inserts - for very small punctures. Kevin could use one, toogarrett said:
thomaskimura said:
Gotta love the contrast in Joe Nosal's language between this thread and SCLR thread.
Two common words I found was "belittle" and "garbage."
Eric N. said:
Eric, let me respond.
What if a cop saw you getting into a bar, drinking a beer, getting out and driving home?
I have not seen this happen personally, but this is my guess:
- if a cop saw you drinking one beer, most likely, he'll ignore you.
- if a cop saw you drinking more (or he didn't see you drinking but your behavior would suggest it having happened), there's a chance he'd confront you and offer a BAC test. If you passed BAC test and seemed to be in control of yourself, most likely, you'd be on your way home. If you passed BAC test, but didn't appear in control of yourself, most likely, the cop would write you a DUI ticket that you'd have a chance to dismiss in court. Unless there's a video of you doing all sorts of stupid things.
Alcohol consumption between instances of driving on public roads is legal in the most of the U.S. (maybe all of it).
I don't see how trails are different from the highway. For the same reason, I don't see much reason to put a blanket ban on alcohol consumption on the trail, and Badfysh is a royal idiot for getting it blown out of proportions.
Someone had mentioned that out of a hundred people drinking, one can spoil the whole party. I think John Lee's dissection of this issue reflects his concern that there's a higher chance of coming across a party pooper at off-road events than it is in society on average. I disagree with that - in my experience, the "average" level of responsibility in alcohol consumption increases with average age of the group, and Rover events tend to be "older" than, say, Jeep or dune buggy events.
It wouldn't hurt me too much if there was a ban on alcohol consumption during the trail runs at RR, but... a Gatorade just doesn't replace a beer for me. Neither does Odouls or any other weird-tasting substance offered at U.S. military bases overseas.
Eric N. said:
Eric, are you saying you've never had a beer while stopped for lunch on the trail? Or just never in front of a ranger? I've certainly done both. Park Service rangers have much worse to worry about than the offroader who's had a beer or two with his meal, over the course of an hour or two.
When I come across a ranger, I'll usually end up chatting with him/her, asking about trail conditions and whatnot. If it's a lunch stop, and I'm holding a beer, I'll typically offer one to the ranger, half-jokingly, and he/she will (at least so far) decline. In the course of this interaction, it will be clear to the ranger that I'm perfecty capable of driving, and that will be the end of it.
I'm pretty positive no trails will be closed on my account, and I'd rather retain the option of responsibly enjoying that refreshing beverage.
Leaving an empty bottle behind is an entirely different matter, and--unlike consuming the beverage itself--is illegal. I'm O.K. with flogging litterers.
p m said:
I think a blanket ban for drinking *for drivers* on the trail for large events is actually a good idea. Now, let me say that I love my beer as much as the next guy, and will occasionally have one on a break while wheeling. When we are with small groups that know each other it is quite common to stop, get out the chairs, and enjoy a brew, then get back in and wheel for another hour knowing the guy next to you knows his stuff.
The big events don't have a way of knowing who can do what and how capable the drivers are. It is already a risky situation that usually involves newcomers and they are already pushing thier limits. Add alcohol to the mix and trouble becomes even more likely.
Anyway, banter on, but I think that for large events, booze on the trail is not a good idea. Small groups can make thier own rules.
p m said:
Problem is if they are seen drinking one beer how do you know they didn't drink five that you didn't see..
They aren't going to permantly close down a highway becuase someone was drinking while driving but, when it comes to OHV trails, they will and can use that along with any other issues, litter, people going off the trails, and so on to close a 4x4 trail/area..
I like to drink beer too but, if I'm out in the woods on a public trail then I wait till the end of the day at the campfire..
B
Badfysh
Guest
My language is different on SCLR because they have rules about language. They also have rules about personal attacks and inflammatory responses. This web site allows any asshole (including me) to pretty much say almost anything to another person. And fortunately as so clearly stated by Jack, he isn't interested in that club, joining it, etc. Thank god. I still wonder why show up to an SCLR involved event if he didn't want to be part.
But then again, I am an idiot, a whiner, a moron, a sorry ass mother fucker, and apparently a point by point discussion is pointless with me. Probably because half of you don't address the points.
I am just surprised that any comments I made have so overshadowed the original reason I posted. I am further surprised that once again, people I respected have ignored the original posts and facts and focused on me for some reason. You condone the wway the treat newbie, beginners or sinply people that have an ugly piece of shit truck.
Its OK, i am a big boy, i can handle it. And for the record, i had no complaints about RR07 so there was no need for me to walk to anyone and say anything. I had a great time and so did all of the people that I talked with. I honestly suspect it because i didnt know some of the people were even there. Once again, thank god.
But then again, I am an idiot, a whiner, a moron, a sorry ass mother fucker, and apparently a point by point discussion is pointless with me. Probably because half of you don't address the points.
I am just surprised that any comments I made have so overshadowed the original reason I posted. I am further surprised that once again, people I respected have ignored the original posts and facts and focused on me for some reason. You condone the wway the treat newbie, beginners or sinply people that have an ugly piece of shit truck.
Its OK, i am a big boy, i can handle it. And for the record, i had no complaints about RR07 so there was no need for me to walk to anyone and say anything. I had a great time and so did all of the people that I talked with. I honestly suspect it because i didnt know some of the people were even there. Once again, thank god.
Green Ganesha said:
Yes, I can positively say that I have never had a beer or any "adult" drinks while out on a public trail while wheeling until the wheeling is done for the day.. That includes even if I'm not the driver... I can do enough damage on my own without the help of "liquid balls" to make things worse.
OK then, who is the motherf*cker responsible for the typo on the back of my RR7 T-shirt? I request a refund, apologies, full retraction and permanent ban from the club.
Curtis - same thing, you don't know how a person will behave after one drink. The BAC figure is the risk the society is willing to accept.
Eric - I see your point about unfair treatment of off-pavement access.
Joe - what was the original reason you posted? You've unloaded a lot of shit on me for a reason I cannot comprehend, and I suspect you've been piling up that load for quite some time. Now, about newbies, beginners, etc. Why should there be a reason to treat them any differently? If somebody has a piece of shit truck, why not to say it - especially, if you can argue for your point of view. This way, when Kyle was on board (even before DW), and John had more desire to pitch in, a lot of mosconceptions was cleared in a hurry (including a lot of mine). I didn't know anything about Nathan Woods until Jack's post; Jack and John have been right about people many more times than me. Nathan's use of "stewardship that was imparted upon us" phrase have him set im my mind for good.
Eric - I see your point about unfair treatment of off-pavement access.
Joe - what was the original reason you posted? You've unloaded a lot of shit on me for a reason I cannot comprehend, and I suspect you've been piling up that load for quite some time. Now, about newbies, beginners, etc. Why should there be a reason to treat them any differently? If somebody has a piece of shit truck, why not to say it - especially, if you can argue for your point of view. This way, when Kyle was on board (even before DW), and John had more desire to pitch in, a lot of mosconceptions was cleared in a hurry (including a lot of mine). I didn't know anything about Nathan Woods until Jack's post; Jack and John have been right about people many more times than me. Nathan's use of "stewardship that was imparted upon us" phrase have him set im my mind for good.
Eric, I have to agree with you. While I would love to grab a beer at lunch on the trail, I think it's irresponsible. I don't want my abilities impaired at all when on the trail. Things often get out of hand in a group setting and only bad things happen as a result, e.g. rolling a truck, injuring someone else, etc.
My one concern about all of this discussion of dry runs, etc. is.....how do you police non-drinking of drivers but not of passengers? Or, do you claim that there is to be no drinking whatsoever while on trails?
I, personally, have never had any type of alcoholic beverage while driving, at a Rover event or running trails. I have, however, had one (probably no more) while being a passenger on a trail. I have known people who ran trails after having a drink or two, but they were well aware of their level of impairment, etc. and chose to abstain if they felt they could not safely operate their vehicle. Also, the only large events for Rovers (or Jeeps) that I have attended have been on private land, NOT public trails.
I think everyone would agree that drinking on public trails would be irresponsible, and in most states against the law. What are people's opinions about private property?
I, personally, have never had any type of alcoholic beverage while driving, at a Rover event or running trails. I have, however, had one (probably no more) while being a passenger on a trail. I have known people who ran trails after having a drink or two, but they were well aware of their level of impairment, etc. and chose to abstain if they felt they could not safely operate their vehicle. Also, the only large events for Rovers (or Jeeps) that I have attended have been on private land, NOT public trails.
I think everyone would agree that drinking on public trails would be irresponsible, and in most states against the law. What are people's opinions about private property?
Roverlady said:
My opinion of drinking on private property is that it's up to the owner of that property to say how they want people to behave while on their land and the people should respect and follow the land owner’s rules..
As for being a passenger and drinking that's up to the driver of the truck, if they want to allow that I have no issues with it.. However, I sure as hell wouldn't want someone who's been drinking spotting me on an obstacle, working a winch, and so on.. You want to be a passenger, hang out and take pictures and guzzle beer all day and you're not in the way, not acting like an a-hole, littering, and not wasted to the point that you have to be helped walk or slowing up the group cause you need to puke behind a tree I'm cool with it..
Although, having a bunch of people standing around on a trail ride with beers in their hand watching a truck run an obstacle doesn't make a very "positive" image as far as I'm concerned.