Whats the 4HP22 max power rating?

Viggen

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p m said:
Im at 150k so planning for powerplant replacement is not completely out of bounds.



Tell me more about the 4.2. My knowledge on this motor is mostly with the 3.5 BOP versions of it having built a high compression Oldsmobile 3.5 for an MGB. Im not too familiar with the modifications made to the motor when Rover took over and know nothing about the EFI systems grafted onto them. I wouldnt mind having a 4.6 breathing through one of the dual plane Offy or Edelbrock manifolds I have in the garage with a Holley injection system. Still uses O2 sensors and completely tunable and the like so passing emissions could be done easily.
 

p m

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I have a 4.2 with 205 kmi and 4.0GEMS with 210 kmi.
150k is not a milestone for engine replacement.

Offy/Edelbrock/Holley Pro-Jection is all out of realms of legality on Fed level. Besides, most likely, you'll lose some power compared to tuned intake of Rover EFI engines.

Just use your 3.8:1 gears.
 

Viggen

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The gears are going in, dont worry about that so much. Can a 4.6 be made to work with the 14CUX system? Is there a chip of some sort available to increase the fueling capabilities of the 14CUX ecu like the one available for the GEMS system?
 

Viggen

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The gears are going in, dont worry about that so much. Can a 4.6 be made to work with the 14CUX system? Is there a chip of some sort available to increase the fueling capabilities of the 14CUX ecu like the one available for the GEMS system?
 

Viggen

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Awesome. So RPI has a 'Tornado' chip for the 14CUX (or is it 14 CU, for American exports, which is "unchippable") for a 4.6 but will I be able to transfer my front plate onto the 4.6 block to keep the distributor/ coil setup?

I did some reading on the 4.2 and apparently that motor has a habit of eating its bottom end? I think Ill go straight to the 4.6 for now.
 

rrc.swb

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Viggen said:
Can the 4.6 be swapped to run a distributor like whats on my 3.9? Will the front covers swap over? I thought that the 4.6 was a different motor than the early stuff. I started thinking about a 4.6 as the easy solution to the problem. Doesnt the 4.6 require a bigger converter than the HP22 will house?
Yes you can.

http://www.d-90.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26943

My truck has all the components from a GEMS 4.6L (expect the few I mentioned). Also, I've seen a Bosch 4.6L with a 4.0L top end on a RRC and a D90 with the 3.9L top end. Anything can be done... it's all about the Benjamin's. :D

The 4.6L does need a bigger torque converter, to accommodate the power increase... That's why LR upgraded their trannys to 4HP24. What I don't know is, if it is a direct swap. The 4HP24 has a bigger bellhousing and bigger torque converter. But will bet the plate is the same. Can someone help with this?
KyleT said:
AB had or has a 4.6 block ready for the CUX system IIRC.

you will have to either have Ashcroft build you a 4hp24 or get a P38 4hp24 from a GEMS truck and swap the hp22 tail housing to mate to the lt230, you will also have to deal with the ECM for the 4HP24.

I do not know of a non electronic 4HP24 (other than ashcroft if he build$$s one).

do a 4.2 swap for simplicity. I am sure a 4.2 with a cam is more than enough. PT would know more than I about the 4.2.
I agree... if you can find a low mileage 4.2L you might end up spending less.

Viggen said:
Awesome. So RPI has a 'Tornado' chip for the 14CUX (or is it 14 CU, for American exports, which is "unchippable") for a 4.6 but will I be able to transfer my front plate onto the 4.6 block to keep the distributor/ coil setup?

I did some reading on the 4.2 and apparently that motor has a habit of eating its bottom end? I think Ill go straight to the 4.6 for now.
My RRC had a chip and I cannot remember what the PO had. You can get any 3.9, 4.0 and 4.6 Lucas re-chipped fairly easily...
http://www.rangerovers.net/rrupgrades/engine/tornado/index.html

And yes it's the 14CUX...

Ouch!!! -> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Gems-Sagem-ECU-Chip-Land-Rover-Def-90-V8-Engine-4-0-4-6-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem3f0276f720QQitemZ270624290592QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories
 
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R_Lefebvre

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I was advised to go the other way, replace my busted ZF24 with a ZF22, so I'd imagine you can go the other way. Problem is, I think you really need to be running all the electronics from the D2 to make the ZF24 work. I think you'd be best using an upgraded ZF22 box.

My understanding is the bellhousing is not larger diameter, it's just deeper (longer) as is the torque convter. I imagine both of those might swap over onto an upgraded internals ZF22 box.

Ashcroft has all the answers:

http://www.ashcroft-transmissions.co.uk/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=51

I've got a ZF24, TQ and flywheel for sale. The trans shit the bed, probably just needs new clutches, but the metal bits could probably be used to make a franken-box if you're feeling confident. I doubt it makes much sense to ship your box back and forth to the UK unfortunately.
 

rrc.swb

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R_Lefebvre said:
I've got a ZF24, TQ and flywheel for sale. The trans shit the bed, probably just needs new clutches, but the metal bits could probably be used to make a franken-box if you're feeling confident. I doubt it makes much sense to ship your box back and forth to the UK unfortunately.
Where are you and how much?

oh!! and what did it come out off?
 

Viggen

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Whats the difference between hot wire and 14CUX? That motor package on d-90 is pretty appealing. Since its already converted to distributor ignition, and I make it work with my efi system?


$1100 for a chip? F- that!
 

p m

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14CUX is hot wire.

Viggen, I don't know what your skill level is, but you're asking questions about a project that seems way too tall for a person who doesn't have a garage.
Putting lower gears in D1 diffs is less than one day job, yet you haven't found time or desire to do it.
Any non-genuine engine swap is about five times the full rebuild job on your 3.9. Yet, you find $1k for an RPI chip too expensive.

Looks like we've got another kid4lyf or netjaws.
 

R_Lefebvre

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rrc.swb said:
Where are you and how much?

oh!! and what did it come out off?

I'm not sure how much... It has to be enough to be worth my time, but cheap enough that you wouldn't be better off buying a known working ZF24 from Tillery or something. Basically, you can assume all the clutches are shot, and maybe the lockup clutch in the torque converter too, don't know how to check that. Really all you're getting is the metal parts. I would think the steels and gearsets are fine. The flywheel and flex plate should be fine.

I was just going to turn it into a bench grinder stand. Seriously.

2004 D2, 60,000 miles. It was fine, other than it took in a little water which disolved the clutches. The oil was full of clutch material, but not much metal bits if any.

I'm in Canada, but could drive it across the border into the US in northern NY.

What's a working used transmission worth?

Agreed. $1100 is retarded for a chip. You could go full aftermarket injection for that kinda money. Of course, you have to have the skills for that. Still, I'd never do $1100 for a chip because that's just stupid expensive.
 

KyleT

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it is about 2k or so to have a ZF rebuilt, supposedly one of the top rebuilders in the country is over in Dallas.... they will even do a hp22 to hp24 upgrade
 

aliastel

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KyleT said:
it is about 2k or so to have a ZF rebuilt, supposedly one of the top rebuilders in the country is over in Dallas.... they will even do a hp22 to hp24 upgrade

Do you have contact info for them?
 

Viggen

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p m said:
14CUX is hot wire.

Viggen, I don't know what your skill level is, but you're asking questions about a project that seems way too tall for a person who doesn't have a garage.
Putting lower gears in D1 diffs is less than one day job, yet you haven't found time or desire to do it.
Any non-genuine engine swap is about five times the full rebuild job on your 3.9. Yet, you find $1k for an RPI chip too expensive.

Looks like we've got another kid4lyf or netjaws.

I personally dont have a garage but my parents live about 20 minutes south of me and I have unlimited access to that, the mig, 50 gallon compressor, my full set of tools (usually in the back of the truck anyway), etc... Only thing not there is a lift. Over $1000 is too much for a chip that doesnt do much. People bitched about paying $500 to $600 for an APR flash on their VWs and Audis but I thought it was reasonable for a fully loaded computer (all three octane levels along with a kill and valet mode). $1000+ is absurd and honestly, if youve got that kind of money, go ahead and buy that chip for a grand plus. Theres a sucker born everyday. $1000- $1200 for a single chip is stupid money when that same amount can buy most of what is needed to rebuild a motor.

I have been working on British stuff since I was 13. It was my job for 10 years while working at a classic British car shop. There isnt one British vehicle that was imported into the States at any time that I havent, driven, advised repairs and parts selections on or personally worked on. My 1972 MGB GT, that I personally restored, was my daily driver, year round, for two years. I have a 1958 MGA in the (my parents since it seems to be an issue) garage that is my restoration project. It was a "barn find" after throwing a rod in 1975 and being parked in a garage in town and being forgotten about. I built an 1900 B series motor up to replace it already.

I havent gotten around to putting the gears in yet as it is the summer and that means race season. When Im not eating, sleeping, or trying to get advice from DWeb/ doing the quick easy things on the Disco, Im on my Cervelo training for the next race. The season ends in a couple weeks and Ill put them in then, just so you know. Youre right about not knowing a whole lot about the stuff used in the Rover which is why I am here asking these questions. Come to me with a question about any part on an MG, Triumph or Austin Healey and I will answer them all but do so in a way that is not derogatory. I could make you feel stupid but thats not the point to technical help. You know more about the Rover EFI system and I guarantee that Ill know more about the SU or ZS carbs used on all the British cars up to the introduction of the Lucas EFI systems (introduced on TR8s in the last gasps of life for Triumph in America). My familiarity with the Rover V8 comes from the 1960s high compression 3.5 (the Oldsmobile version which was different from the Buick and Pontiac version) I built for my dads 1979 MGB roadster. The 3.5 has a huge following among the TR and MG crowd for its ability to fit easily, offer more power and do it lighter than most stock 4 cylinders.

Im not afraid of a non original motor swap. I have already put together a drivetrain for my MGA using a 2L Ford Zetec, converted to RWD with a Mustang T5, and breathing through a pair of DCOE40s for the BGT. The idea for a newer motor in the truck was to eliminate the issues with the BOPR V8 like shitty rocker assemblies, bad castings, poor oil pumps and their habit of losing prime, and dropping liners. Its not the easiest thing in the world to do but having an early truck with minimal electronics is a good start. Now, having said that, a more up to date 4.6 that can give me the extra power I want AND can be converted to run off of my existing electronics easily, is a pretty good thing. Almost drop in is nice.

My technical ability and access to resources, including a garage (which my truck wont fit into anyway) are more than enough to do a motor swap.

Thank you for answering the question pertaining to the Hotwire and 14CUX system though.
 

p m

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Putting a baby Ford into a non-emission-controlled MGA is a little easier than finding a replacement for an emission-controlled V8 with some aggravating circumstances like ZF transmission and not a whole lot of room.

Speaking of blown engines, I believe D2 4.6s are ahead of all other varieties in frequency and gravity of failures. And they seem to fail in every which way possible.
It doesn't mean you can't find a 4.6, modify it to work with 14CUX, and live happily - but it won't be cheap.
 

Viggen

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p m said:
Putting a baby Ford into a non-emission-controlled MGA is a little easier than finding a replacement for an emission-controlled V8 with some aggravating circumstances like ZF transmission and not a whole lot of room.

Speaking of blown engines, I believe D2 4.6s are ahead of all other varieties in frequency and gravity of failures. And they seem to fail in every which way possible.
It doesn't mean you can't find a 4.6, modify it to work with 14CUX, and live happily - but it won't be cheap.

Maybe you should actually take a look at an MGA and its bay/ trans tunnel area before you talk about no room.

But, onto Rovers, thanks for the information about the 4.6 actually being worse. Thats the type of information that I was looking for in the first place. I didnt need the attitude or the fight that came along with it though. DWeb has this reputation where the D stands for douche. I was told, if you can deal with the assholes, there is no better place for information. Now, digging up information from past posts isnt the easiest thing but I always use the search button before posting anything up. I dont know who kid4lyf is but I assure you, I am not a big talker who trolls for information and then does nothing with it.
 

p m

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Viggen said:
DWeb has this reputation where the D stands for douche.
Wonder where else you're hanging around on the web.

4.6 by itself is not worse by design, but the combination of underrated cooling system in a D2 and poorer quality control made for this statistics. If I wanted a 4.6 without a price of RPI build/reman, it would be a GEMS 4.6 out of an early P38A.