Mar Armed Marshals??

[Kyle]

Steve you are skirting this question. I didnt ask if the "MARshals" were asked by ROAV to carry guns. I asked if they were going to carry. Its a simple question. YOU have not yet told me that it is policy that no guns will be there and definately not on the "MARshals".
And it seems to me that if you want to avoid beer bottles in the woods , just avoid the beer..... Boy that was easy. Were these bottle being thrown out of vehicles ?
Seems to me like you are just trying to clear the "Club" by saying that they werent asked by the club to carry...
In light of the conversations last year and now , it seems to me that ROAV would state that their "MARshals" will not have firearms. Makes sense to me anyway... But as stated before , I am a little slow....


Kyle

 

[Crazy Fish]

So, if NO marshalls had guns while marshalling, wouldn't that just solve the issue?

 

[Steve]

Kyle, it sounds like its going to be a rough crowd there this year. You better plan on camping with us so none of the banditos slit your throat in your sleep.

What does the statement "..all he got back was an "F.U." That will not be the case this year." imply? You are going to use a weapon to enforce litter or give you the respect that you somehow think you deserve?

Ohh, and because you are trying to prove something, I'm a combat veteran too. I just don't need to throw that out there to add credibility to my statements. My statement was meant to imply that I understand law enforcement and I really understand weapon safety.

Its kind of like some of the swiftboat veterans who said "If someone has to tell somebody they are a hero, they most likely are not... if someone tells you they have a bunch of medals, they probably don't". I've found this to be true in my experience.

 

[syoung]

Kyle- Sorry I missed your question. I've got nothing to hide. NONE of the Marshals will be carrying firearms, unless they (like any other attendee) bring one of their own accord. The only Trail Marshal I don't know very well is a firefighter/search and rescue guy from Fairfax and I don't know if he carries one or not.
Whether or not I have my weapon depends on circumstances external from MAR and ROAV.
MAR is a family event- certainly. There is nothing intrinsicly 'un-family-like' about a guy who carries a sidearm. I am paying for the bulk of the kid events out of my pocket and I bought ROAV the moonbounce out of my own pocket, so attempts to portray me as anti-kid or anti-family are not really going to work.

 

[Steve]

...NONE of the Marshals will be carrying firearms, unless they (like any other attendee) bring one of their own accord.

Is that a yes or a no?

 

[syoung]

Steve- no matter what I say, you'll find fault. I can be a veteran but not a combat experienced one? Fine-

People are mixing issues again- if you read what I wrote you'd see that the problem last year was that people didn't know who/what Trail Marshals were there for and their role at the event. The point was being made that their role needs to be defined and notice made to participants that they are the eyes and ears of the event hosts- Throw bottles in the woods and tell them "F.U." and you'll be asked to leave. That simple. Uninvited guests deal with the Sheriff.
The lack of respect probably came from attendees not knowing that Marshals are MAR STAFF and they are in charge of keeping the event moving along and most importantly, your safety.

As for yes or no- I know all but one will not... but I don't plan to frisk the Firefighter from Fairfax.

 

[Steve]

Let's get one thing straight. I will never and would never discredit the service of another military person or the role they played while they were there. It seemed like you were going down the path of "mine's bigger than yours" and that's not the issue.

So let's get back to the issue. I agree 100% that the Marshals need to be there for assistance and enforcement of the tread lightly credo. People do respect that there are volunteers there that have donated their time to serving the attendees when they could be riding trails with the others. No, ROAV did not make it clear what a "TRIAL MARSHALL" was. Maybe because of the misspelling, attendees perceived it as an officiate of the timed course events on the island.

If I am doing something wrong, and anyone asked me to stop, a friend, a stranger or even some guy with a little blue light on his Rover, I'm going to stop and think about my actions. I also understand that everyone will not grant you compliance with requests (see you don't need to respect someone, you just need to comply).

What I don't agree with you on, and won't ever, is in regards to carrying a weapon on your persons, in plain sight, semi-concealed (because a jacket isn't going to hide a weapon from someone who is use to seeing one concealed in this fashion) or otherwise. If you can't respect this fact that everyone is trying to convey to you then you will find a hard time getting the respect a trail marshall should deserve at this event.

If nothing else, you can't forget the shit-storm of postings and flame wars against your actions last year. That in and of itself should cause any rational person, and I hope a gun toting individual is rational, to respect the masses of law abiding individuals attending.

Please bring your weapon in case it is needed. But please leave it safely secured in your vehicle.

 

[syoung]

Steve- I understand your point of view. The flame-war was a pile-on and the vast majority of the people IN that flame war weren't even there, and the ones that were there took liberties with the truth. The fact that I was elected to the Board after that and the fact that pre-registrations are well ahead of predictions and larger than ever states more to me than one guy starting a pile-on on a web site. His problem was that I had spare magazines- which are part of my work rig.

People are mixing comments made about respect- The comments made about having respect (or at least enough respect for the Staff position to get compliance) were related to a discussion about publishing a charter for the staff. That conversation had nothing to do with firearms, other than a joke that actualy made reference to the fire-storm of last year which was confined to DWeb.

I can't make everyone happy. I have spent a ton of money and time to make MAR better than ever this year and I hope everyone who goes has a great time. Many volunteers have pledged their time to help with that as well.

As you should well know- a vehicle is not a safe storage for a weapon unless there is a gunsafe installed in the vehicle. Mine is not so equipped.

 

[Steve]

I copy that and apologize for any misunderstandings.

I for one was there last year and spent a considerable amount of time directly in front of you during a traffic jam. I was in fact admiring the Spanish snorkel you had.

From the context of what I did read, it appeared a bunch of gun toting rent-a-cops were going to be in charge this year. As a police officer, you can understand my concern. Most of these civilians could not pass the tests required to get into an academy and some are downright scary.

 

[syoung]

Absolutely agreed!

I think anyone who has met me would say I'm a decent guy- if you are unsure, I can be contacted through Rally Control at any time and would be happy to meet with anyone who has any questions or just wants to see who I am. Not all guys with Freelanders are bad... Although I'll probably be drivin my Disco most of this year since I just rebuilt it.


One comment on Marshal vs Marshall... they are interchangable. Marshal with a single L used to mean a ceremonial leader/parade leader etc and 2 L's meant a law enforcement type... the distinction is no longer valid. We went with the 'ceremonial leader' traditional spelling because it was more appropriate... law enforcement isn't the concern of the TM's, but they will enforce the MAR guidelines which will be provided in a briefing and a handout.

 

[Steve]

I don't care how you guys spell Marshal. Trial is not the same as trail though. LOL.

 

[syoung]

oooOOOOoooohh... I missed that! I had several people ask me why there was no second L though... I assumed... and missed... Trial, Trail.... I'd better proofread those decals I made last night.

 

[garrett]

so are we clear?

hell all i wanna do is just hang out with my friends and drive on some trails with my truck......eat some BBQ and relax.

i really don't wanna deal with freelander, gun totn', "get out and pick that up boy before i make you pick it up" kinda boy scouts.

i am no macho guy and will back down in most situations, but not everyone is like that. we don't need drunk people arguing with blue light special folk with sidearms. they don't mix. it just seems like they will be looking to make the 'big bust'. haha.

if someone says "fuck you", just smile and pick up the god damn bottle or can. write down their MAR # and report it. have the real officials deal with them later.

like i said before and others have as well......marshals should be there to help people. that we all can and will appreciate very much. anything can happen out there. i just don't want to see a fun event tainted by some over reacting chump.

see you all there.

ps: steve andrews. kyle won't be making it to MAR i am certain. but since we are good, decent and wholesome folk it was good that you asked. i might accidentally 'spoon' him at night.

 

[Kyle]

Steve I dont think anyone painted you to be anti family. I think attention was brought to something said about something you had a part in. And I can still clearly read the side stepping in your posts about pistolas. You certainly had to protect the club from what I mentioned before , and started backing up on some things that were said elsewhere.
So if I attend , do I bring a pistol to protect myself from you ? I dont know your mental capacity or that of the other "Marshals" in the pack. I wouldnt trust half of you to spot me through a tough section of parking lot , let alone do it with the iron strapped on.
So again , does ROAV not care if their apointed staff is packing or not ? That little bit about them not asking is just more side stepping. The conversation that was pasted here came from somewhere and as always you say "It was taken out of context". Isnt that what is always said about such things ? Sounded like some shit Mayor Barry said on TV.
In short , the way you respond here doesnt really answer anything. The answer wont be known until AFTER the event is over. Correct ?
Your financial contributiuon is relative to what in this conversation ? Dont get it all mired down in Military history or job history. Its a simple conversation about 1 thing and 1 thing only. I havnt even gotten to the booze yet....
Seems to me that ROAV would simply say that the things that happened in the past wont happen again.
Oh , and you reference people that dont go. It shouldnt be to hard to figure out why should it ?

Kyle

 

[syoung]

nobody is lookin for a "big bust" unless by that you mean the OTHER type of bust.

What does a freelander have to do with anything?

"have the real officials deal with them later." The difference is that I am one of those officials.

If everyone has the attitude that they just wanna hang out, run trails, goof off, have a cold one and enjoy themselves then everything will be fine. There will always be those who try to shake things up though. None of the volunteers or ROAV Staff are chumps- I think you'll enjoy what we're working on.

Most people haven't noticed, but if you check the ROAV page- Bill Burke will be teaching some seminars this year. That alone is worth the price of admission!

 

[Kyle]

Garrett , you can see why it just wouldnt be good for me to attend. What a fucking Circus. "I am going to the serenity of the woods this week end to hang out with 750 people some of which are drunk and some of which have little mans complex" Christ maybe the gun is a good idea , he could put one in my head and end it for me...

Kyle

 

[Snwbord24]

So if I were to attend would I have to bring one to protect myself from you and Steve? Alright, everyone start carrying Can this reasoning be carried over to knives? Most of us will have a knife on us and no one worries that we'll use it to harm anyone else and I certainly don't feel I need to carry one to protect myself from someone else who does.

I think the jist of it is that there is no official policy about carrying a firearm at the event. It doesn't matter if someone is a Marshall or Marshal or participant, they can all equally carry one. Being a Marshall (in the context of the event) is no reason to carry a gun and I don't think anyone is saying it is.

 

[Kyle]

Lets hope Bill doesnt get out of line and get capped.....

 

[syoung]

Kyle-
Maybe it's just late in the day, but I don't understand "Oh , and you reference people that dont go. It shouldnt be to hard to figure out why should it ?" Registrations are up over last year. I don't know what your point here is.


"Seems to me that ROAV would simply say that the things that happened in the past wont happen again." I'm not following this either- someone complained that I had spare mags for my pistol... then people started piling on and mostly people who didn't go to MAR anyway, but saw a chance to pile on. Some people started posting complete fabrications just to fuel it. There's nothing in the past that for which ROAV has to atone... one guy started a pile-on in a forum on one web site that was mostly just four or five guys spouting off, enjoying the sport of the internet flame. Nothing bad happened that has to be corrected.

I'm not sidestepping anything.

 

[garrett]

no i hear you kyle and can understand what you are saying. i do plenty of local events or do my own camping/wheeling when i have time. MAR certainly can be a mess, but honestly it is more about seeing our friends and pretty much just having a big family camping/cook out and seeing all the interesting trucks.
and yes of course there was the booze issue last year and yada yada yada about a few people that got a little carried away with it. that will always happen, but as long as they are not on the trail then all is ok for the most part.
funny thing is that it is not all about Rovers. did i just say that? haha.

guess you won't get to see me taking my shirt off this time kyle. sorry.