The future of automotive technology

jim-00-4.6

Well-known member
Sep 30, 2005
2,037
6
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Genesee, CO USA
MarkP said:
.....The only innovation this will likely produce will be the relocation of energy producers to neighboring states. Los Angeles, for instance, buys a significant amount of its power from Arizona, a trend that will likely intensify as the cost disparity for producers grows as a result of regulatory growth and mandated caps on production......"
I thought they decided NOT to buy power from AZ, since AZ doesn't welcome the illegals the way cali does.
Oh. Wait.
You think they were just SAYING that, to, I don't know, get VOTES?
Goodness.
Their deception knows no bounds.

What a fucked up state.
 

kennith

Well-known member
Apr 22, 2004
10,891
172
North Carolina
roverMc said:
I beginning to think we need to start a thread called Kenny and His Life.

I live alone in a warehouse. It's fixed up on the inside, though. In the past six months, only two people have been in there.

I personally like things that way, but for everyone else that would be one hell of a cold, dark, lonely, boring and quiet thread.:)

Cheers,

Kennith
 

MarkP

Well-known member
Apr 23, 2004
6,672
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Colorado
So we have established that today's electric cars are really coal fired electric cars. What is the future?

By adopting local Cap and Trade regulation, California is moving even more of its energy production (coal) to surrounding states.

On the solar front:

FEDERAL JUDGE HALTS FIRST LARGE-SCALE SOLAR PROJECT ON PUBLIC LANDS
East County Magazine ^ | December 17, 2010 | Miriam Raftery


In summary, more coal!


Some interesting data in the discussion:

- Proposed solar plant may generate 1000 MW, 10 hours a day, on 6000 acres
- San Onofre (nuclear) generates 2350 MW, 24 hours a day, on 84 acres

1.67 MW-hr/acre vs. 671.4 MW-hr/acre
 

jhmover

Well-known member
Apr 23, 2004
5,571
3
California
That's the problem. The Greens don't want anything. Regardless of what it is the assholes will sue over it. Desert turtles? Yellow-billed penis poppers? Whatever they can find they will use it to halt progress. Meanwhile California's cap & trade is going to encourage clear cutting in forests. That will no doubt get more lawsuits going and not a bad thing if they hold cap & trade up. Then go to NJ and Christie is robbing their cap & trade money to balance the state budget. Guess what Governor Moonbeam will do with it in California?
 

MarkP

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Apr 23, 2004
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Colorado
I don't know, Governor "Moonbeam" said your State budget is ""Much Worse Than I Thought -- We've Been Living In Fantasy Land"

Clearly you need to fund less services, more illegals and higher state employee wages/benefits with more taxes AND Cap-n-Trade!

:rofl:
 

Durt D1ver

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2008
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Jersey Shore
jhmover said:
Then go to NJ and Christie is robbing their cap & trade money to balance the state budget. Guess what Governor Moonbeam will do with it in California?

Why wouldn't he, because they've already stolen all the money out of the state pension system over that past 10 years, that the state had to put a constitutional amendment on the ballot, which passed, to stop him from continuing to do so.
 

jhmover

Well-known member
Apr 23, 2004
5,571
3
California
Durt D1ver said:
Why wouldn't he, because they've already stolen all the money out of the state pension system over that past 10 years, that the state had to put a constitutional amendment on the ballot, which passed, to stop him from continuing to do so.

Government: a polite word for thieves.

They've been stealing money for years in California so they can continue their spending extravaganza. They rob money from cities, counties, schools, etc. My favorite is they used to take road taxes and stick them in the general fund, piss the money away, then bitch they need more special taxes to fix the roads.

Bernie Madoff is a piker compared to government.
 

MarkP

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Apr 23, 2004
6,672
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Colorado
More insanity ......

So-called 'zero energy district' relies on...diesel?!?...

Starting Wednesday and continuing for the next year, a large swath of downtown Fort Collins will offset its peak power consumption by generating some of its own energy—an $11 million component of an ambitious and much-heralded effort to create a “zero energy district” in the heart of the city. FortZED, as the district is dubbed, will attempt to offset the energy it currently uses from a publicly-owned coal-fired power plant “through conservation, efficiency, renewable sources and smart technologies,” according to the project’s website.

But those who think that power will come from windmills and sunshine—as implied on the FortZED website and its accompanying marketing video—are mistaken. In fact, the bulk of the replacement power will come from diesel......

...... “They’re taking the emergency diesel generators at City Hall and a few places around (Colorado State University) campus and slaving those to power the grid. Gosh, let’s take the most dirty, expensive, scarce fossil fuel—diesel—and use it to generate electricity, and this is our renewable energy source?”........​


Wow. Using emergency diesel generators for day-to-day power needs? :banghead:

In other words it is all about perception, not real emissions.

Did Knewsom move the FTC?
 

MarkP

Well-known member
Apr 23, 2004
6,672
0
Colorado
More on those coal fired cars ... and much more.

No Coal, No Power, No Gas
American Thinker

..... hospitals were having to switch to emergency generating systems. And this in the state with the largest energy production capacity in the continental US.

How was it that Texas suffered an extended period of rolling blackouts at a time when there's a glut of coal and natural gas waiting to be used?

The answer may be quite simple. It seems that a great deal of natural gas got "stuck in the pipes" because there was not enough electricity to operate the pumps to move it along. And there was not enough electricity to operate the pumps because environmentalists had seen to it that plans for new coal-powered generating plants had been shuttered back in 2007. So without the coal, there was no electricity, and without the electricity, there was no natural gas. And since much of the natural gas was intended to supply electrical power generating plants, there was even less electricity to supply the pumps and everything else.....​

Energy flow requires ...... energy AND capacity.

So for all those in 4-seasons country imagine no natural gas.

Waiting for someone to propose that all electric cars be banned from taking power during low generating periods.
 

SGaynor

Well-known member
Dec 6, 2006
7,148
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Bristol, TN
MarkP said:
More on those coal fired cars ... and much more.

No Coal, No Power, No Gas
American Thinker
..... hospitals were having to switch to emergency generating systems. And this in the state with the largest energy production capacity in the continental US.

How was it that Texas suffered an extended period of rolling blackouts at a time when there's a glut of coal and natural gas waiting to be used?

The answer may be quite simple. It seems that a great deal of natural gas got "stuck in the pipes" because there was not enough electricity to operate the pumps to move it along. And there was not enough electricity to operate the pumps because environmentalists had seen to it that plans for new coal-powered generating plants had been shuttered back in 2007. So without the coal, there was no electricity, and without the electricity, there was no natural gas. And since much of the natural gas was intended to supply electrical power generating plants, there was even less electricity to supply the pumps and everything else.....​
Energy flow requires ...... energy AND capacity.

So for all those in 4-seasons country imagine no natural gas.

Waiting for someone to propose that all electric cars be banned from taking power during low generating periods.

Sorry, but the whole premise of that article (power shortages because coal fired plants weren't built) is just wrong. Plants went off line because they couldn't deal with the cold (for whatever reason). Even coal fired plants.

Texas suffered a power shortage because production went off-line, not because the "[FONT=times new roman,times]environmentalists in Texas who blocked the construction of coal-powered plants and shut down others during the last decade[/FONT]" (From the article you pasted).
 

MarkP

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Apr 23, 2004
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Colorado
SGaynor said:
Sorry, but the whole premise of that article (power shortages because coal fired plants weren't built) is just wrong. Plants went off line because they couldn't deal with the cold (for whatever reason). ....

Actually I'll call bullshit on NORTH Texas plants not being able to deal with cold. What really happened?

The reality is that the issue IS policy driven. It is a combo of not building capacity, which translates to margin, and some really dumb decisions precipitated by AGW policy/believers. Hey, the climate is warming so we don't need cold weather mitigation strategies!

Capacity example, from American Thinker article:

new coal-powered generating plants had been shuttered back in 2007.....construction of eight large coal-powered plants were scrapped in 2007.....wind and solar, which make up only 1% of power generation.....​

AGW insanity example: (dirt=coal)

PRD
February 3, 2011

I’ve worked at a dirt burner and a gas burner in N. Texas and N. Louisiana, and visited many other plants in East and NE Texas. The pipe and air lines are wrapped and heat traced (that’s an insulated and heated line for the engineering professionals that are griping).

Guys, can you also tell me when the last brand new dirt burner went on-line in Texas? It was in the late ’80s. Again for the pro’s – a power plant water or air line that is insulated first has an insulated resistor wrapped around it or laid along it, depending on pipe diameter; then the pipe is wrapped in a few inches of fiberglass insulation; followed by aluminum “lagging” or a shield which keeps the insulation dry.

Now, the breakers to the freeze protection should be turned off in the summer, but usually aren’t because in the grand scheme of powerplant operations it is a rather small vampirical power use.

In a 30 year old plant, there can be spots along, for example, a 30′ line that is for a pressure transducer which is read to control a critical point in the whole power production process. This 30′ line is 30 years old and has never given any problems, but this year, the vibration finally eat’s through the heat trace insulation and the heat grounds out and no longer works. It freezes, the pipe either shows too much pressure and trips the whole unit or the line ruptures and trips on low pressure.

It can be that simple – I’ve seen it happen. A thirty year old afterthought finally gives way.

I worked in a water treatment plant in the Houston area – freeze protection funding was dropped by the GM because Al Gore said it would never be needed again (seriously). It snowed, froze up dang near every air exposed sensor in the plant, froze the water in the air lines so we couldn’t control pneumatic valves (funding for air dryer maintenance was also reduced). We had four hours of fun before the air temps finally came back up above freezing.

These plants were designed and built for the climate. The maintenance crews are first rate men and women. As the plants age, there is less time for checking the voltage on heat trace that has worked for 25 years trouble free than there is fixing major components starting to break due to age.

It’s “putting out fires” that may have caused this.​

You read that correctly, Houston and North Texas plants were originally designed and built for cold climate.
 
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SGaynor

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Dec 6, 2006
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Bristol, TN
They may have been designed to work in cold climates, but that doesn't mean stuff won't break down when stressed. And plants that don't generally see prolonged freezing, then suddenly do, will have issues, which is exactly what you posted.

I don't see how this is due to some political issue, that you are trying to make it out to be. My company had issues (some that could have severely reduced production at the entire facility), too, but it had nothing to do with politics and everything to do with the cold.
 

MarkP

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Apr 23, 2004
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Colorado
SGaynor said:
...I don't see how this is due to some political issue, that you are trying to make it out to be. .....

Easy, infrastructure needs to be renewed and maintained. As the articles pointed out neither have been done due to ...... politics. AGW believers thought we were on an ever increasing temp profile while environmentalist are preventing any renewal of infrastructure while offering up nothing in return.

The outcome was predictable.

Note, I worked across North Texas and down to Dallas. Many trips took me to Austin and Houston. It gets cold there so the excuse of "we didn't expect it" is bullshit.

No margin, no power. No maintenance, no reliability. No investment in new power plants, well no power.

It really is simple.