Output bearings

[scot]

Looking on the tech section's output bearing guide, it shows the bearing as being part number "6207-J" but not who makes that particular bearing. Before I head over to napa and try to convince the guy to look for part numbers of an unknown manufacture, does anyone have any more specific info on that part?

The oil seal looks like a LR only part, so I will head to the dealer later and pick that up also.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks,
Scot

 

[billb]

That 6207 is an industry standard beaing number - anyone selling bearings will recignize it.

BTW - do not count on getting that bearing out per the article in the tech section. I haven't put bearings in an LT230 yet that allowed you to get the bearings out just by pulling on them. In each case, I've had to split the case and drive the bearings out from the back side with considerable force. You may get lucky, but it most certainly has not been the case for me.

Bill

 

[scot]

Well thats no fun! That leaves a question then, should I even try to pull it just in case it's possible in my case? My fear is pulling with hooks or a slide hammer will damage the bearing so it cannot be buttoned back up if it doesn't feel like coming out. Heck, a better question is how do you even attach the hooks or slide hammer to the bearings?

Thanks!
Scot

 

[billb]

That's the problem - its a ball bearing - there is nothing to grab with hooks and definitely not with a slide hammer. The out put shaft leaves no room to sneak anything in between it and the inner race of the bearing either.

You may get lucky, but be prepared to split the case.

Do you know the bearings are bad? - usually just the seals go since the bearings are always swimming in 90 wt.

bill

 

[scot]

Unfortunately I don't know they are bad. What I am experiencing is a loud whining noise that starts as soon as the vehicle is under power, and gets louder until about 50mph, where it drops in volume a bit or is overtaken by other noises until 70mph where it gets loud again. It is quiet under neutral throttle conditions (ie coasting, not cruising) and comes back a bit without power.

I removed the driveshafts (one at a time) to determine diffs were not making the noise. Noise does not follow gear shifts, and transmission seems to operate great. Pulled input shaft to check it out and it looks OK, though the races could move a bit on the bearings. Bearings themselves looked fine.

There is a background sound of gears spinning, but it is seperate from the whine I hear. Most of the people I have described the issue to believe it is a bearing issue, specifically with the output bearings. Only "hint" I have as to this being correct is when I removed my front driveshaft, the sound was reduced by a small amount, but not removed.

Any input on this would be greatly appreciated.

BTW: http://www.posilock.com/Internal_Pullers/InternalPullers.htm that looks like what I need to do if I understand correctly. Looking at the bearing I should be able to hook something into the races, plus it may help me pull the oil seal (though I dont know that for sure)

 

[billb]

Whining can be bearings - can also be other things - how does the fluid look - any shavings in it?

Oil seal comes out with a simple seal puller ($7.00 tool) - just be carful not to score up the aluminum housing. An internal puller won't touch the bearings - there's nothing to grab. Get a new 6207 bearing and you'll see what I mean.

LT230 is pretty simple to take apart an reassemble if you're son inclined - so just be prepared to take the whole case out and do it on the bench. Worst job is dropping the damn exhaust IMO.

Bill

 

[scot]

Fluid looks/looked great. No shavings and it was a nice golden color before replacement, did it about a thousand miles ago without any change to the sound (of course).

While the t-case might be simple to pull out and rebuild, I unfortunately don't have time nor money (~300 for the rebuild kit) to do it right at the moment. Gotta build an enclosure for my trailer and get my butt to roebling road for a kart race. If the noise is coming from the output bearings, and they can be replaced in situ, thats the best thing for my current situation.

Is there any clear and concise way to determine if it is a bearing/which one? It does not sound quite like gear whine in my mind. There is a "chorus" effect I have heard in race cars with straight cut gears, and I am assuming that would be similar in this situation. I can definitely hear noise generated by movement, but it is a single note changing in pitch/volume directly related to the wheel speed vs what I imagine improperly meshed gears would sound like. Pushing the tcase selector lever left or right (while in 4H unlocked diff) does not change the sound much, if at all. Its one of those things where you think something may have changed, but there are so many other sounds its really hard to tell. I would think if it were gears, the sound change would be obvious, but output bearings are not directly connected to that lever so it would have little or no effect on them.

BTW: I did pick up a 6207-J, and I think you might be able to get something in the races, but whatever it is would be small, and I cant see how much strength it would have. Definitely not enough to pull a stubborn bearing free. Then again, maybe I am missing something and there is an easy answer to this issue that I haven't seen yet.

 

[billb]

Honestly - not sure what else to pinpoint once until you had the case apart.

Not sure why you'd need a $300 rebuild kit (don't even know what would be in the kit). If you find no other issues, then your only costs are seals (2) and bearings (2). The case is sealed back together with "the right stuff". Regardless it is a PIA to pull it out.

Good luck with it!

Bill

 

[barefoot]

i am having EXACT whine! 50-70 not too bad but over 70 and intolerable...fyrthermore mine has newly developed (in conjunction) a vibration on downhills over 70mph when driveshaft in neutral position. mine started when i replaced my rotoflex w/a ujointed shaft...i did not have the correct spacer and the bearing (probably more the race) is now fried. sounds just like its coming from the transfer case (middle of car) but it is in fact the rear pinion bearing. so if you have recently done a conversion check this...i got the bearing and race for rear pinion @ napa and a new oil seal from nathan @ discount rovers!

 

[Shawn M]

I had the same type of noise in my D1.

I read the tech on front output bearing and bought one. Pulled the seal (easy with a small flat blade pry bar/screwdriver)

Tried for the better part of an afternoon to pull the bearing. No joy. I concluded the only way was to drill into the race between the balls in three places and feed some wire through to apply equal force on pulling.

I didn't feel 100% convinced this bearing was bad as I was able to clearly see it and the race was clean, no shavings etc. so I decided not to destroy it.

Buttoned it up again with a new oil seal and changed the pinion bearings in the front diff.

Noise gone. Your results may vary, but FWIW, I scarred the crap out of the aluminum in the T-case trying to get that bearing out.

If I had to do it again, I wouldn't even try to pull it out. Luckily, I didn't get a new leak on the output bearing. (yet)

 

[scot]

Shawn: Did you test the diffs how I did with removing the front driveshaft to localize the sound? Was yours directly related to your throttle (even with the driveshaft removed)?

Actually lets do this another way. Please everyone post messages telling us how you figured out exactly where your problem was. I know you might think it easy to figure out, but there are tons of bearings or possible places for noise to come from and they all sound pretty much the same.

 

[billb]

Scot - seems like you already localized your noise to the Tcase - so, either out put bearings or bearing preload on the mainshaft bearing (large nut on the end of the mainshaft as it goes through the side of the Tcase regulates preload).

Bill

 

[Shawn M]

During testing I removed the rear prop shaft and it changed nothing.

I put it back on and removed the front prop shaft. The noise reduced dramatically, but was still there during long coasts downhill. What makes it even tougher, is I have a 5 speed, so it obviously behaves differently than the autos when diagnosing noises.

When I had the pinion bearings replaced, the guy who set up the lash said the outer bearing had a little corrosion, but wasn't obviously bad.

Don't know if that helps you at all.

I was getting a low howling/whining noise from what sounded like the front. It was worst under drop-throttle coasting to a light or down hill. It was OK accelerating.

The part that I couldn't understand is how it could still make noise with the front propshaft off. Still don't know about that one as there would be no torque put to the pinion bearings at all with the shaft off.

This also offered me the opportunity to pull the front gear case. Which gave me a chance to have a rear TT slipped into it during the rebuild and swap it to the back.

 

[barefoot]

so when you took the front driveshaft off and noise reduced dramatically...replace front pinion bearing. a little noise in transfer case is very common, see if you cant live with that for a while, while you develop a plan to change the t-case bearings...anyone know a good way to do this please chime in! i am sure there is an expensive land rover tool developed for this specific task...unfortunatley, it would probably be cheaper to buy a new t-case!!??

 

[scot]

Barefoot: The bearing is easy to replace if you follow the instructions, and I don't mean the ones on this site. It just requires removing absolutely everything else in the transfer case while its off the truck. I was trying to "get around the system" and do it the wrong way which is described here. Unfortunately there is no easy way to do it, unless the bearing is moving somewhat freely already. Still going to try, but the 10" of snow and 10 deg weather put a damper on the situation.

To remove the pinion bearing, it looks like I just have to remove the driveshaft (which I would have to remove anyway to do the output bearing) then remove the pinion flange mount. Following that just pull out the pinion and check the bearings. If so, this looks so simple there is no reason not to check these bearings "just in case" it isn't the output bearing. Figure there is only a 10 percent chance on this, but hey why not.

Of course, it seems so simple I must be missing something serious.

 

[gmookher]

i am having EXACT whine! 50-70 not too bad but over 70 and intolerable...fyrthermore mine has newly developed (in conjunction) a vibration on downhills over 70mph when driveshaft in neutral position. mine started when i replaced my rotoflex w/a ujointed shaft...i did not have the correct spacer and the bearing (probably more the race) is now fried. sounds just like its coming from the transfer case (middle of car) but it is in fact the rear pinion bearing. so if you have recently done a conversion check this...i got the bearing and race for rear pinion @ napa and a new oil seal from nathan @ discount rovers!

and this solved your problem? what puller do I need to pull this pinion bearing?

 

[redroverm37]

I had the same type of noise in my D1.

I read the tech on front output bearing and bought one. Pulled the seal (easy with a small flat blade pry bar/screwdriver)

Tried for the better part of an afternoon to pull the bearing. No joy. I concluded the only way was to drill into the race between the balls in three places and feed some wire through to apply equal force on pulling.

I didn't feel 100% convinced this bearing was bad as I was able to clearly see it and the race was clean, no shavings etc. so I decided not to destroy it.

Buttoned it up again with a new oil seal and changed the pinion bearings in the front diff.

Noise gone. Your results may vary, but FWIW, I scarred the crap out of the aluminum in the T-case trying to get that bearing out.

If I had to do it again, I wouldn't even try to pull it out. Luckily, I didn't get a new leak on the output bearing. (yet)