Liner failures in Land Rover V8 engines ? what's happening?

[robisonservice]

Land Rover Discovery II overheating engine failure is getting more and more common around here. The "traditional explanation" is that the liners shift within the block and somehow combustion gases get into the coolant. In the early days I know that was true because I saw 1990s engines where the liners dropped slightly into the block. However, LR supposedly fixed that issue, yet the failures continued. In fact, the engines in the last Discovery II models seem to fail at a higher rate than the 1990s models.

I have also seen liner movement blamed for engine noises. Is that accurate?

We recently cut a 2003 Land Rover Discovery engine in half to determine why it failed from overheating. Are the "slipped liners" real or not? I have the writeup and pictures on my car blog at robisonservice.blogspot

 

[roverover]

The liners aren't slipping as much as the blocks are micro fracturing and allowing the liner to move. So the problem is if the liner "slips you can no longer just press in T-tops because the block is actually ...........well fucked

The question is why are these engines overheating to the point that the fracture the block? Is it the idiotic recycling cooling system? Are the blocks just weaker than the old Gems blocks?

 

[jymmiejamz]

Another tech at our dealership had the liner machined out of the block I gave him out of my truck (never overheated AFAIK). We then pressurized the block and could see an obvious crack in it. He had the machine shop weld up the crack and press in a new liner, but he has yet to put it in a vehicle.

The reason it may seem like a liner issue is because when you pressurize the block (with the liner in) it will leak out around the top or bottom edge of the liner. The actual problem is the block behind the liner. Also, it is almost always cyl #4,6,3, or 5, but we've also seen #8.

 

[DiscoS2]

A class-action lawsuit would be great. Maybe I can get a free replacement engine after the case settles 10 years from now! LOL

 

[az_max]

I think boydfoose is a shill. All his/her/its posts point to a site selling car parts.

 

[crown14]

I think boydfoose is a shill. All his/her/its posts point to a site selling car parts.

Click the report button!

 

[KyleT]

late 4.6l have the issue the worst. the manufacturing process was not as good, the engines were rushed through production to meet demand therefore have the issues with both porosity and the liners coming loose. others that have the liner slip are most likely due to being over heated dirty style.

 

[ptschram]

I think boydfoose is a shill. All his/her/its posts point to a site selling car parts.

Hang him! How dare anyone come around here trying to sell parts.

:rofl:

 

[az_max]

Hang him! How dare anyone come around here trying to sell parts.

:rofl:

lol, I don't mind someone selling parts, even just coming here to say "hey, I work for partsline.com, and I can you good prices on Land Rover parts!". But when it's an embedded link in a thread meant to look like part of the conversation, but obviously spam, I don't like it.

 

[lforgue8]

the liner issue has always had me curious.......i do only remeber a few GEMS blocks and only one to my knowledge cux block had liner issues here at work.........my "feeling" is with the switch of coolant types but i have nothing to back it up on......i have a recycled 03 block in my truck and it has yet to over heat or develop a mystery coolant loss but i use green coolant so we will see.........

alot of the coolant loss blocks ive had a hand in have had several over heats to the block and would lead to liner issues but the cracked block behind the liner sounds more like what may be happening

id love to hear more people's takes on it!

 

[ptschram]

I agree with you Luc, I also think the complicated convoluted cooling system in the DII is a major contributor.

I have yet to see a GEMS, nor a Lucas block fail and if it were likely to happen, there is a certain '95 Disco in my yard that it would have happened to as it was badly abused when I first got it and it's still running strong after a headjob 115K miles and ten years ago.

It could be the manufacturing issues, it could be the cooling system, but whatever it is, it's far more prevalent in the later built engines.

 

[singingcamel]

I agree with you Luc, I also think the complicated convoluted cooling system in the DII is a major contributor.

I have yet to see a GEMS, nor a Lucas block fail and if it were likely to happen, there is a certain '95 Disco in my yard that it would have happened to as it was badly abused when I first got it and it's still running strong after a headjob 115K miles and ten years ago.

It could be the manufacturing issues, it could be the cooling system, but whatever it is, it's far more prevalent in the later built engines.

My feelings as well, I'm running 3 disco 1's in the family 1 with 159k another with 147 k and a 3rd with 139 k so far so good.

 

[DiscoS2]

My feelings as well, I'm running 3 disco 1's in the family 1 with 159k another with 147 k and a 3rd with 139 k so far so good.

Yup; my '94 D1 is going strong with 176,000 miles and the original head gaskets.
I'll definitely live with a distributor ignition if it means not having an engine that will break before hitting 100K miles.

 

[crown14]

the liner issue has always had me curious.......i do only remeber a few GEMS blocks and only one to my knowledge cux block had liner issues here at work.........my "feeling" is with the switch of coolant types but i have nothing to back it up on......i have a recycled 03 block in my truck and it has yet to over heat or develop a mystery coolant loss but i use green coolant so we will see.........

alot of the coolant loss blocks ive had a hand in have had several over heats to the block and would lead to liner issues but the cracked block behind the liner sounds more like what may be happening

id love to hear more people's takes on it!

More agreement from over here, I believe the higher overall operating temperature and higher compression have everything to do with these issues in bosch motors, they knew there would be the potential for this otherwise why build such a convoluted cooling system arrangement. See also all the extra panels on a D2 to direct all possible airflow through the radiator or around the engine. I used to laugh at the guys cutting holes in their hoods, and you wont see me doing it, but I am willing to bet some poor engineering fucker was sending memos to anyone who would read them BEGGING for a hood vent of some type and the idea never made it past the guy who decided it would be too hard to get any more of a contour out of the aluminum cans they were stamping the hoods out of already.

 

[FB111]

On the conventional thermostat engines the coolant LEAVING the engine is at the temperature of the thermostat. On the Bosch engine the thermostat is AFTER the radiator so the coolant ENTERING the engine is at the thermostat's temperature. It would only seem reasonable that the BOSCH engines run much hotter.

 

[pdxrovermech]

we bought a GEMS 4.6 p38 from a customer once. It was high mileage, but we knew the history on it and it ran great with no cooling issues. We just planned on parting the thing out, but its big selling point was getting that good 4.6. well we got the engine out, ripped the heads off, and low and behold one of the liners was slipped down at least a 1/4 inch. The weird thing though is that it never had a problem. We even drove the thing around a good month before we parted it out. For the hell of it we took the pan off to look at the underside of the sleeve and it had a chunk taken out of it from where the piston rod had come up and hit it.