Chopping Questions...

[dormobiledisco]

Well, in light of the dismal valuation news on the Disco, I'm still thinking about chopping it. However, I have some questions for those who have done it already.

Firstly, how much is it going to cost us? If we decide to buy it back, this will probably not be a DD...more of a weekend fun-type truck. It might be mine for a while first, but then we'll use it driving around town in nice weather, maybe taking down to the OBX, etc. So we need to kind of do it "on the cheap." We'd probably be able to do stuff like welding the cage ourselves, if we can get a welder rented.

Second...how long could it take us? We have limited time until the onset of winter. We don't want to have a half-finished project car sitting around. We can put a tarp on it or something when we're not working on it, but it'd be best to have it caged and covered ASAP.

Third...what's it like having a soft-top car? Does it get really cold? Is it louder? Is it less secure? Again, granted, this would be more of a fun car, but nonetheless...

I might have more later, but for now...

 

[dave_lucas]

"Firstly, how much is it going to cost us? So we need to kind of do it "on the cheap."

More than the Disco is worth when you are done. IMHO It is hard to put an exact dollar amount to a project like this due to the exponential amount of variables involved.

"We'd probably be able to do stuff like welding the cage ourselves, if we can get a welder rented."

Unless you or someone you know is very good with a welder I would budget money to have a cage designed and welded by a professional. After all this is your health/ life we are talking about if it fails.

"Second...how long could it take us?"

2 weeks OR 5 years depending on your skill level, how much time you have to dedicate and how fast/ slow you work.

"Third...what's it like having a soft-top car"
Does it get really cold? YES
Is it louder? YES
Is it less secure? YES

Not trying to bring you down but it is going to cost you a decent amount of money and be alot harder than you think especially starting with the type of damage you have on your disco.

A good place to start would be by creating a list of what you want to do and make some chops in paint or photoshop. Once you have the "vision" of what you want to do figured out call around on the parts you need (cage, Soft top, equipment) and it will give you a better idea of what you are in for.

 

[SCSL]

"We'd probably be able to do stuff like welding the cage ourselves, if we can get a welder rented."

Unless you or someone you know is very good with a welder I would budget money to have a cage designed and welded by a professional. After all this is your health/ life we are talking about if it fails.

x2. I would even go a step further & say extremely good with a welder -and- very familiar with four-wheeling and off-road cage design. You don't want your cage to be someone's first try. Roll an open rig w/ a poorly designed and/or poorly welded cage and you won't have the opportunity to roll it again.

 

[ptschram]

C'mawn guys. The correct answer is "start cutting and tell us how you did it, how long it took, and how much it cost".

Of course, I have a shop bay full of parts trucks I have yet to begin cutting on. The sketching began yesterday.

 

[Robbie]

C'mawn guys. The correct answer is "start cutting and tell us how you did it, how long it took, and how much it cost".

that's been my thought process so far!

like steve and dave said above though, make sure you either know what you are doing with the cage or find someone who does. the cutting of the truck is the easy part. a few bucks for some sawzall blades is all it has cost me so far. but now i am looking for someone experienced with cage building. i believe with the softop and cage built, i am looking at around $2k. but this truck is not a daily driver and i will not be too worried on making it secure or winter comfortable driving. it can be as expensive, or as cheap as you make it.

 

[Howboucha]

I am always looking for an excuse to post my "chopping project" photos. Thanks for the opportunity. To see the story, go here: http://www.redbirdsra.com/discoconv.htm

Brendan

 

[SCSL]

Holy Shiz-Nit ! Now THAT is a CHOP !

 

[dave_lucas]

I am always looking for an excuse to post my "chopping project" photos.

Did you do anything with it or just cut the top off?

 

[dormobiledisco]

Alrighty...was just outside taking some measurements. It looks like the project would take about 60 feet of steel and 10 yards of 5' wide waterproof boat top fabric. I think it's about a $1k job, give or take a few hundred.

This Rover will probably be more of a "Sunday ride" vehicle than an off-road truck (in about a year or so, I might buy another, fully-intact Rover and build it up as an exact CT replica truck). Maybe, when the tyres wear out, we'd put bigger ones on there or something, but right now I envision this as being first my car for a year (my parents want me to learn to drive with a Suburban, which my dad wants to replace the Rover with as his "hauling" truck, a concept I'm trying to get across to them is not going to happen. I'm not learning to drive in the biggest car in America, especially when I've been waiting to drive a Land Rover since I was four), and then, after a year of driving a soft-top car, decide whether to continue driving this one or hang onto it for a "fun" car, and get another, enclosed, Rover as my DD.

As thus, we don't need a really extreme cage or anything. When I talked to the guy that "started it all" about his chopped Disco, he said it ran him about $350 in materials (I think...AOL just dumped the email today), and I'm assuming he welded it himself. The top would probably run about $300 from a boat store or something, or we could get the materials and sew it (which is kind of unlikely). I'm trying to figure out what to do with the right B pillar, which is buckled from the impact. Depending on how much it would cost to straighten, I'm looking at ways to design the pillar into the cage. Anyone know how much that kind of bodyshop repair would run? I'm budgeting $300...though, for all I know, it could run much higher (in which case it would be intergrated into the cage).

I've also got a cool "maybe" cage idea...replicating the hump in the top of it. This keeps the Disco look to the project. Also, the softtop could be designed with stuff like alpine windows and dual "sunroofs" in it (windows in the roof). It might be an idea to look into, depending on cost.

So, I'm looking at this kind of budget (before talking to anyone):

$500 for the cage (may be high, depending on how we make it, ourselves or have a manufacturing shop my dad uses a lot do it)
$300 for the top
$300 to fix body damage
$100 Miscellany (kind of a "buffer", and for stuff like bolts and small stuff)
MAYBE two new doors on the passenger side...have to see if ours are salvageable, but if so, $300 for that

TOTAL: $1200-$1500, give or take a few 100

Also, money can be made from selling off parts that we won't need, but that are undamaged; e.g., rear A/C components, glass, interior panels, etc. Really, the only sellable things we lost were the two main passenger side door windows. Everything else can go up for grabs, possibly putting a few hundred back into the project.

Any comments? Have I thought this out right? Is there something I'm missing? Any other ideas?

 

[dominic]

chopped disco did that and heres why it failed!

Any comments? Have I thought this out right? Is there something I'm missing? Any other ideas?[/QUOTE]


When i was working at an autowreckers they had a 97 disco come back from disposal auctions twice - nobody wanted until i got it for $2600 CDN knowing that underneath the mangled mess was a warn 9000i and an ARB airlocker & compressor, some very nice 24 spliners and bilstiens and OME's so i put all the goodies onto the RRC and swapped back the axles, i cut the roof off and remade the tailgate down to 14 inches with the spare wheel carrier on it like a jeep, that alone took a month as i had to deskin it - relocate the upper hinge on the gate and also the D pillar, then i refabbed the rear quarters and made custom U channel cappings and corner cappings - a weeks work, the roll cage mounts also took a month, i had to strip the entire interior because of anglegrinding and my 200 amp miller welder, if you have not welded before - forget it unless you know what heat and penatration you will end up with a brittle and weak weld, i almost got it done until i contacted my insurance company and others who ALL flatly refused to insure it as it was highly modified, sure it drove and looked good, but if you havent done the basic's it will cost you dearly - simple things like all seats require a 5 point race harness because if it rolls you gotta keep people suspended in the truck and not half hanging out as the fleshy bits mark the paint, likewise a greenstick fracture will puncture the soft aluminum outer lol

Im not trying to scare you off it, it is a great idea but i run a restoration shop and am still learning techniques after 20 years of Lotus/volvo/ rover/leyland and sportbike riding, it really needs to be done from the ground up the roll cage mounts need to come from out riggers on the fram as the weakened body will have no structural integrity, the purpose of the roof that has stiffening ribs might look flimsy but its all a carefully controlled CAD designed stiffened cell that is designed to collapse progressivly into the next stressed member depending on the severity of impact - honestly its a lot of work if you want to go ahead and make a bush rig by all means i can email you photos of my abandoned project and some basic sketches, but id recommend personally a couple of better options namely goto simmonite UK and purchase a tubular frame for there land rover racing buggy, or better still source a 109 series pick up and remount that on the frame, im doing a simalar thing with a 1948 studebaker stepside truck onto a Discovery 1 frame and i can tell you half the 1500sq ft shop is full of parts for it, and it will take me at least a year to do - just stretching the frame took 2 weeks of careful measurements before the mig was applied - if the frame was 1/8 out it would drive horribly - these projects take a lot of time stress and moolah and demands that the missus is sympatic to your insantity.

If i can help by all means PM me

cheers

Dom

 

[Brian425]

From drag race car experience, a full 10 point cage (not just a roll bar) can cost over $1000 in chrome moly. A mild steel cage will be just a little cheaper. You will need to use 1 3/4 or 1 5/8 tubing. Since most places will not be familiar with the Disco, you many be looking at even more. The easiest way would be to look for an existing Disco rollcage and have a good chassis shop modify it for your needs. Also I would look at a weld in cage instead of a bold in cage since you have cut away the roof.

The cage in a project like this is nothing to play with. A good cage will save your life, a bad cage just may kill you. Also without the roof, the cage will help give rigidity. I would estimate the cage to be $1000 or more installed.

I would start by pricing somthing like this and then checking what modifications are needed.

http://www.safetydevices.com/images/products/4x4/2005 dealer guide-Discovery1-all products.pdf

Good Luck,
Brian

 

[SCSL]

Brian, I also though about modifying the SD internal cage when I was first thinking about this project. But it's not geared towards an open-topped vehicle. Rather, made to work w/ the roof structure & pillars in place. It's inadequate & modifying it would be just as expensive/time-consuming as designing a cage from the ground up. I agree with everything else in your post though.

Dormobile, I strongly suggest you work w/ an expert or contact HyOctane / Deranged Rover,,, they should be coming out w/ a cage kit in the near future.

 

[rdoane]

::hijack:: has anybody actually tried to order those cages? i know of only 3 in NA, and one is in a disco whoes owner is a personal friend of mine. he had david gage of thatched roof garage bring his over. however, 1. david is not bringing anything else over, 2. SD went out of business. SO, if anybody knows how to get a cage, especially for a d2, send me a pm ::/hijack::

 

[Rocky]

Correction SD went into administration and is back in action, with production moved overseas while development remains in the UK.

A D1 pick up is an idea that wierdly appeals to me....

Though getting a 2dr Rangie and doing a Pick up on that is even better

 

[dormobiledisco]

In response to the hijack: try these guys --> http://stable-energies.com/ I think they're the "official" SD distributor in NA. They've also got the best prices on SD racks I've seen. If you want, PM me with your email address and I can talk to you a bit more on the subject...I've got a small amount of knowledge on SD cages from my CT vehicle research. </end hijack>

Does anyone know of any experts around here? I can't find any 4x4-centred businesses...though there are some racing design companies. I hope that I don't come across as not caring about safety or anything with the cage issue - it's more that I'm kind of naive about the whole subject. SCSL...I'm going to send you an email (or, if I can't find an address, a PM...though they drive me crazy since I can't figure out how to reply to them). I'm interested in this kit idea.

Thinking on another tangent...it's already almost December...we don't want such an open and vulnerable vehicle outside with snow and all. Anyone know a good, cheap way to store the truck for the winter, preferably someplace where we can work on it?

 

[rdoane]

::hijack(i swear this is the last time)::

Correction SD went into administration and is back in action, with production moved overseas while development remains in the UK.

forgive me, i wasnt aware of that. however thats good news
::/hijack::

 

[dormobiledisco]

Just saw the post preceding my preceding one...

The pickup thing was actually my original idea. I like it a tad more than the chop, since it's a bit more refined and a bit more useful for my purposes. Now that I think about it...it might be possible to do that cheaper. If enough of the rear part of the roof can be fused with the front, a new roof wouldn't be needed. Now you're looking at $300 or so in a bulkhead, $200 or so in a rollbar (don't need a full cage for that), $300 or so for pillar repair, $200 for a new door and glass, $100 in Herculiner, $100 for miscellany...now it's a $1200 project instead of a $1500 project, and one that was kind of my original idea anyway. I'll still have to do some comparison research, but maybe that's a bit more viable.

Does anyone know how much it costs to straighten a pillar? My dad said it'd be pretty cheap...is it?

 

[ptschram]

Greg:
Ship it to me, I'll do the job, sounds like fun! I have two parts Discos, one with an intact roof!

Straightening the pillar will cost oyu at least two hours of frame rack time. Most obdy shops charge a minimum of two hours for setup and measurement, then it is an issue of how many pulls to get it straight.

Regardless of what you budget, expect it to cost double-at least.

 

[dormobiledisco]

Alrighty....did some research today, and came up with an APPROXIMATE budget...would still have to do more...and I still kind of have to convince my parents, but quite frankly...I've kind of caught onto the idea of a Disco Pickup, maybe even more than a regular Disco right now...and I think it can be done for about $1G after selling off parts.

My budget (tentative) (italics means possibly-avoidable expenses):

Aluminium for the new bulkhead to be built behind rear footwell (which will be closed in for storage with the bulkhead, part of the roof, and the rear quarter glass): $150 (manufacture ourselves, use original windscreen)
Rollbar (four mounting points, behind front seats, made by prosm, and mounted by us): $400
Frame Rack time to fix B pillar (estimate, would have to ask a bodyshop, but have this from some net research): $250
New pass. side window (old one blown out): $75
New pass. side door (depending on reusability of ours, inside panels keepable, as is all hardware): $200
New windscreen (old one cracked down centre from general impact of tree): $300
Roof (I looked at ours today, and it looks like it might be possible to take the rear part just forward of the alpines, fuse it with some of the front, hammer out the dents, since it would be a small, manageable section, and have a perfect-length roof complete with a sunroof and two alpine windows...if not, would need a new one): $300
Repaint (at least the new door and the fused roof in Coniston...and if it's cheap enough, I might think about repainting the entire thing Sandglow and make a modified CT replica, except with things like a small roof rack, and the lack of need for anything that doesn't fit where the new bed is): $200 (not sure how much would really cost, insight helpful.)
Miscellany: $100
Helper-Labour: $100
TOTAL FOR PARTS: $1775 (minimum) to $2075 (maximum)

REGAINABLE THROUGH RESALE OF OLD PARTS (based on personal opinion and SCSL's prices for his chop-remainder parts): $800-1000

TOTAL FINAL PRICE: $1075 (high) to $775 (low)

I think that, for that kind of price, it's really a deal that can't be beat. $800 and you have yourself a cool, one-of-a-kind custom Disco, that I can enjoy driving and owning. It'd probably be cheaper, too, if we can find really good deals on stuff like doors, find some way to get cheap aluminium, etc. I think it'd totally work, and it'd be really cool and a lot better (for me) than a Suburban.