ARB vs Ashcroft
- Thread starter DiscoPhoto
- Start date
beaglebones said:
I don't have a problem with selectable lockers. They just aren't always the right choice for an application.
The suggestion that they are the only real traction solution is annoying.
Would I like to have the capability? Sure I would. I just want it in addition to a full-time traction solution; not as a replacement. Things like this are available, but you've really got to want them.
Cheers,
Kennith
Once I get my paypal issue sorted, money is being sent to Justin for the shafts who of course was great to work with, regardless of where I work.
kennith said:
First, and please don't get excited just clarifying here, I never said they were the only choice. I stand behind my Detroit. BUT as stated earlier a TT is not a real locker. Probably better than stock but that's where IUstop. I live in area where we DON"T get snow thankfully so I have no idea how a full locker, TT or selectable acts in those conditions. All you guys in the North can keep it. It's a good trade off for living with the hicks I think.
In a street/trail truck I would prefer a selectable f/r if money allowed. Full trail I'd go with a Detroit, Spool, or welded with hydro assist. As soon as I save up for a front set of Ashcrofts I'm probably going to move the Detroit to the front and weld the shit out of my rear.
Devildog01 said:
Those are the electric ones correct? They didn't have D2 shafts last time I saw their brochure.
luckily this is a thread where the original poster got enough info to make an informative decision.
the sidetracking selectable vs lsd is fun. its like a cucumber guy arguing with a pickle guy. a low end torque guy arguing with a high end torque guy. and dare i say a hellman's mayonaisse scumbag vs a Duke's mayonaisse guy, which any true american will tell you if you don't use Duke's you're a communist.
there is always a happy medium BUT never a definite solution to almost anything. if you're setting your truck up for everyday 'overlanding' use an LSD with a CDL, sitting on 33's is almost perfect. if you want to absolutely destroy anything in a still street driven truck, selectables, 36" bias TSL's, and not a care in the fucking world to break anything is almost perfect.
you cant have it both ways.
EveryoneLoveEveryone.
the sidetracking selectable vs lsd is fun. its like a cucumber guy arguing with a pickle guy. a low end torque guy arguing with a high end torque guy. and dare i say a hellman's mayonaisse scumbag vs a Duke's mayonaisse guy, which any true american will tell you if you don't use Duke's you're a communist.
there is always a happy medium BUT never a definite solution to almost anything. if you're setting your truck up for everyday 'overlanding' use an LSD with a CDL, sitting on 33's is almost perfect. if you want to absolutely destroy anything in a still street driven truck, selectables, 36" bias TSL's, and not a care in the fucking world to break anything is almost perfect.
you cant have it both ways.
EveryoneLoveEveryone.
seventyfive said:
I'll probably keep this a overland trail/daily driverable truck until I get a 90/110. Then it'll go pure trail and get beat to hell. The big reason for me to go selectable is I'm in VT, when I'm going 65 in 6" of unplowed snow on the highway around a bend, the last thing I want to happen is my LSD/detroit to engage and destroy my life. I'm at about a 3.5" lift or so right now, which seems to be a good height except I haven't replaced the abs lines, watts, or radius arms yet. The truck still drives great at 80, starts to vibrate after that. Will be going to a double cardon with u-joint conversion rear shaft from GBR, and I'm guessing RTE for the watts, unless someone has a better idea?
This is a perfect breakdown.seventyfive said:
At some point you start questioning whether a vehicle X is a right platform to start with.
I'd argue that, loosely-defined "up to 33" is the reasonable target modification range for a D1 (a little more for a D2). Beyond that it is a realm of rapidly diminishing returns. Can one build a Disco on 40s? Yes. But one has to factor in the cost of a Super Duty and a trailer to get this contraption to the trailhead - by then a Disco becomes a one-trick pony, losing ground to many other vehicles that could do the same for fraction of the price.
beaglebones said:First, and please don't get excited just clarifying here, I never said they were the only choice. I stand behind my Detroit. BUT as stated earlier a TT is not a real locker. Probably better than stock but that's where IUstop. I live in area where we DON"T get snow thankfully so I have no idea how a full locker, TT or selectable acts in those conditions. All you guys in the North can keep it. It's a good trade off for living with the hicks I think.
In a street/trail truck I would prefer a selectable f/r if money allowed. Full trail I'd go with a Detroit, Spool, or welded with hydro assist. As soon as I save up for a front set of Ashcrofts I'm probably going to move the Detroit to the front and weld the shit out of my rear.
You patently suggested that any traction aid that does not fully lock and/or unlock the differential is an inferior solution. Given the absolute nature of the suggestion, it must be assumed that you also contend the purchase of such a device is always illogical, simple-minded, cheap, or otherwise foolhardy.
That is not correct.
Limited slip or torque biasing differentials are not meant to be "real" lockers. They weren't designed to "almost" be a locker, nor were they designed for those who are incapable of installing, using, or purchasing a locker.
Choosing a non-locking traction aid does not indicate a lack of capability or ambition.
These devices serve a different, and incredibly valuable purpose.
A selectable locker is a wonderful traction aid... On occasion. That's the problem. Most of the time, it's $1,000 worth of absolutely no additional capability, coupled with increased complexity.
That's an ineffective solution for some people. Indeed, sometimes it's an entirely wasted opportunity, and a way to guarantee unacceptable performance.
Such devices have their place. They are most at home on the trail; playing in rocks or in mud. They are nice in farm equipment and other working vehicles. They can even be effective in a few types of racing, as well as certain types of overland use.
They are not, however, even remotely acceptable in situations that require the occasional carriage of heavy loads at high speeds in wildly variable terrain and weather, with any significant slowing of the vehicle immediately and invariably equaling a total failure of whatever reckless task you've found yourself attempting to complete.
If you've buy a selectable locker for such use, you've bought absolutely nothing at all beyond a possible (but unlikely) "get out of winch free" card.
I assure you, my tail lamps have illuminated far more misfortune than most, and that's the point. I've got added performance in conditions that (unless I've made a catastrophic navigation mistake) do not include dancing about artfully arranged rock gardens.
Would a selectable locker provide me with superior performance in situations where I might find myself cross-axled or otherwise unfortunately positioned? Absolutely. There can be no argument.
I don't need that, though. I try my best to avoid those situations. What I need is predictable control that is, at the very least, acceptable in most conditions, and at most speeds. My priority is to avoid being entangled; not to embrace it. If I fuck up, I'm already screwed. Break out the winch.
Now, there are occasions in which I use open differentials. Indeed, I'm using open differentials at the moment. In those events, a selectable locker would be acceptable. I'm not losing any every-second performance in exchange for a rare opportunity to pretend I'm driving a tractor.
As I said. Lockers have their place. For most people, they are the obvious answer to nearly any question. On the trail, they will leave any other traction aid in the dust. That's their purpose; absolute control when required.
I'm not the only one, however, who is best served with a different arrangement. There are many people who prefer other solutions with good reason. I'm not saying selectable lockers are bad or otherwise inferior. I'm saying they aren't always the answer.
This is all, of course, ignoring Kam's combination units. Those things are different animals entirely. I'd like to own something like that, but I'll have to wait to pick up another axle assembly, as swapping the whole thing on occasion would be a hell of a lot easier than trying to get all that shit in and out when I need something different.
Again, I'm not suggesting that selectable lockers are bad; only that they aren't always the proper choice. Just as big, knobby mud tires can be a poor choice in certain circumstances, so can selectable lockers.
Cheers,
Kennith
Nazi,
If you're getting a blow back of gear oil through your airline, drill out your diff breather to a larger size (or make sure it's not clogged).
If you're getting a blow back of gear oil through your airline, drill out your diff breather to a larger size (or make sure it's not clogged).
p m said:
I can't even fathom what would take "hours" to fix on an ARB locker unless you're tearing down the diff to replace O-rings or something. It's a very simple design and only a few things can go wrong unless there is some sort of catastrophic failure.
Is there less to fail in a Detroit? Sure. There are a lot less parts and a lot less exposed parts on a Detroit to fail or become damaged. If it's beyond your ability to repair a broken airline on the trail or diagnose a solenoid, the ARB is probably not a good option for you.
With that said, and having run both for years at a time, I'll take a selectable locker any day of the week on these trucks.
p m said:
The difference is if you pop an airbag, you're done. If your selectable locker quits working you can still drive.
See, to each his/her own. If I pop an airbag, I'll pull it out and pop the new one in in about 15 minutes. I wouldn't even have to take a wheel off.D Chapman said:
Chasing leaks in chaffed through POS plastic air line under a truck with mud falling in your eyes, or chasing electrical issues in somebody's clusterfuck of electric wiring? Spare me the pleasure.
Kennith - excellent diatribe.
D Chapman said:
done dit dat.
im actually going to tap the hole for fittings like i did on trevor's 90 and use power steering hose.
Love this old argument.
I went from stock open/stock open to ARB/ARB with no LSD in between based on crap I read here on Dweb.
That was 10 years ago. How time flies.
That truck is still running and I've NEVER had an airline or electrical issue as far as the lockers were concerned.
I went from stock open/stock open to ARB/ARB with no LSD in between based on crap I read here on Dweb.
That was 10 years ago. How time flies.
That truck is still running and I've NEVER had an airline or electrical issue as far as the lockers were concerned.
Will this tubing work? http://www.mcmaster.com/#catalog/119/136/=mcza2hseventyfive said:
I'm in the process of procurring the parts I need as it looks like I'll be keeping my ARB in the front.