2008 Mid Atlantic Rally! Oct 2, 3, 4, 5

[ArmyRover]

X2. i've seen middle schooler that act more mature than ROAV's leaders.

X3

 

[I HATE PONIES]

OK, I think we've all made our points. It's now turned into a revolving thread and the same shit is brought up over-and-over again. Although they will never admit to it, I think ROAV has learned something from this. At least, I hope so.

As unpopular as it might be, and I'll take a e-beating for it if need be, I say we allow Ho or Axle to delete this thread and allow LRMike to make his MAR 2008 announcement. I'm not saying that Axle or Ho will agree, but we could ask.

It's not my intention to bring ROAV down. It's not my intention to kill MAR. MAR has left, at least me, with a lot great times. I think at least a few of us feel this way. Many of us feel the new venue is Jeepish, or what ever, and we've made that known. What ROAV does with it is up to them.

Thoughts?

I don't think this thread should be locked or deleted. I am not trying to bring anyone down either. I am merely expressing my opinion. I am only trying to make Mar even better. I don't agree with how it is being done but....

If lrmike wants to post a new thread for the 2008 Mar I will agree to not post in it.

 

[D Chapman]

Peggy and I personally did extensive research into other large driving events of all brands. The MAR was the only one allowing uninhibited access on private land. Some of the other venues, such as the SOLAROS and the National, use public access trail networks and properties - places you can go on your own at most anytime. Venues such as Rausch Creek and Crozet are private off road parks governed by their own rules with their own insurance and waivers, as well as admission fees.

Guess your "extensive research" did not include SCARR.

 

[MC22958]

Ok, so I have to say it. What positive can come out of all of this? If the direction of MAR has taken a turn that doesn't meet your needs then what? Would you like to create another event who's main attraction will be open Wheeling, night runs and showers? (and yes I know some of you are planning on going to the Cove the same weekend as MAR) Lets look at the schedule and see if another opening exists that everybody could possibly make. It doesn't have to be this year. An Early November weekend might be fun. If you are soured by the ROAV board and do not want to deal with them then choose another club or create one. It is really pretty simple. It will take a lot of work and dedication but I know this group can do it. I will help out, will you? The old saying comes to mind...

 

[Kavic]

An Early November weekend might be fun.

That would conflict with hunting season... and probably not the best time to be running the trails.

 

[D Chapman]

Ok, so I have to say it. What positive can come out of all of this?

Does ROAV not not want feedback? I mean, after every MAR ROAV asks for feedback. It's not that it matters because every year attendees of MAR ask for showers, ice truck, one way trails, among other things. Yet, ROAV has yet to accommodate this. So really, historically, it does not make a shit if ROAV gets feedback before or after the MAR event.

So what "positive can come of this"? Well, that's up for you to decide. ROAV can view this thread, take notes, and proceed how they wish. All these points have been made clear in the past. Maybe pre-MAR feedback will be considered over post-MAR feedback as post-MAR feedback has not got the members shit in the past.

If the direction of MAR has taken a turn that doesn't meet your needs then what? Would you like to create another event who's main attraction will be open Wheeling, night runs and showers? (and yes I know some of you are planning on going to the Cove the same weekend as MAR)

I think it's been stated, more than once, that a lot of member join ROAV only for the sake of attending MAR. I am/was the same way. I can't speak for everyone, but other than MAR, ROAV did not offer me too much.

ROAV has reached out, a little, by quasi forming a "Virginia Trails" committee. This "committee" has yet to launch, but that only reflects the guidance we've come to expect from ROAV. So, seeing this committee do jack-shit was expected and nothing new for those of us watching. But this committee did give a few people hope. That hope is slowly dripping away, and it's not because of a lack of effort on my part. A quick look at the ROAV BBS will reflect my efforts. But as John Tackly says, I've done more to hurt ROAV than help it.

Lets look at the schedule and see if another opening exists that everybody could possibly make. It doesn't have to be this year. An Early November weekend might be fun.

Be my guest. Have at it. But a 4x4 rally in the woods during muzzle-loading or rifle season may not be "paramount" safety for the attendees.

If you are soured by the ROAV board and do not want to deal with them then choose another club or create one.

As stated earlier, a lot of people are in ROAV for MAR and MAR only. I would venture to say a lot of these same people are not "club" type of guys, anyway. If I found a club I could enjoy, yeah, I might join. I've been a member of Shenandoah Valley 4-Wheelers, VA4WDA, United, ROAV, and Blue Ridge Land Rover Club. Each club or organization offers different things for different people. So, I think the club market is pretty well covered. I don't want to form a new club. I don't see the point in a club.

It is really pretty simple. It will take a lot of work and dedication but I know this group can do it. I will help out, will you? The old saying comes to mind...

Not real sure what you're trying to say, but I'm sure it was meant to be positive. Just not real logical.

 

[cptyarderho]

wow, I missed all the fun. Maine rocks this time of year.

I am also the Land Use person for ROAV, feel free to rant at me personally here.
ukoffroad@yahoo.com
As Dan so gingerly intimated we as a club have not tackled any large projects for land use yet. Most of my ROAV time has been dealing with the Summer Rally and the MAR. If you checked in at the Summer Rally on Friday, you probably met me. I hope to have more in the works, but like many of you my schedule gets a little crazy.

If you have questions, comments or suggestions about Land Use in the VA area I am happy to listen.

 

[cptyarderho]

Dan, it saddened me deeply that you did not call.



I had to drown that sorrow in Lobster and rum, I feel much better now.

 

[lrmike]

Guess your "extensive research" did not include SCARR.

From the Texas Rovers website on SCARR 2008:

This year, Texas Rovers has reserved Barnwell for 4 days (April 17th-20) exclusively for SCARR 2008, and the park will be closed to the General Public. In doing this we have been able to extend the rally from 3 days to 4 days. Also, we have rolled ALL of the fees - SCARR + Barnwell Mountain Daily Use and Camping Fees into one fee. You will NOT have to pay any other fees when you reach the rally!

Barnwell Mountain website

I stand by my statement atriot:

I didn't know lobsters even liked rum!

 

[Steve]

I have a feeling the annual meeting in '09 is going to have a record attendance. I think ROAV better bank on that.

 

[D Chapman]

Peggy and I personally did extensive research into other large driving events of all brands. The MAR was the only one allowing uninhibited access on private land.

SCARR was held at Barnwell Mountain. As you know, since you did "extensive research", Barnwell Mountain is owned and managed by the Texas Motorized Trail Coalition. TMTC is a Private off-road vehicle park, I.E. "private land".

Texas Rovers rented the entire property. This differs in no way from ROAV renting Oakridge Estate for MAR. Both are private lands.

Texas Rovers did not require you to follow a guide, although organized trail rides left a staging area daily if you did not have a group to travel with or if you thought you would need a helping hand. The trail guides were well received, but hardly a requirement.

So really, I'm not sure what you refer to as private land. TMTC land is private. Oak Ridge is private. Big Boy's Playground is private. GWNF is not private.

Some of the other venues, such as the SOLAROS and the National, use public access trail networks and properties - places you can go on your own at most anytime.

I'm not sure why ROAV follows the guidance of other organizations. If people wanted to attend a SOLAROS event, I'm sure they would. But that's not what we're talking about here, we're talking about MAR and ROAV. If MAR was just like every other Land Rover event it would not be unique.

Venues such as Rausch Creek and Crozet are private off road parks governed by their own rules with their own insurance and waivers, as well as admission fees.

I'm really not sure what the problem is here.

 

[cptyarderho]

I have a feeling the annual meeting in '09 is going to have a record attendance. I think ROAV better bank on that.

I would think that would be a good thing, the more the merrier.

 

[Steve]

I would think that would be a good thing, the more the merrier.

Better for the group, yes, as in a better representation of its membership.

 

[Roverlady]

A few follow-up notes:

I think this thread should stay open for all to see.

I am deeply saddened and embarrassed by the attitudes and responses of some ROAV BOD members.

I have enjoyed MAR and Spring Rally in the past, but must admit that other than joining for the sake of attending, we've rarely gotten more than 3 postcards a year for the events and ABM announcements. I think a few years back (2002?) we got a membership directory and some other info. I still have them. There is certainly an opportunity here for more to be done for, and more input to be received from, the membership as a whole.

I liked ROAV when Joe was president. My personal $0.02. (hope that doesn't get me "kicked out!")

I do hope that MAR at ORE is a success and I do appreciate the honest answers I received to some specific questions about the event.

All of this crap will certainly have an effect on membership and attendance, because I honestly believe that Dweb has been instrumental in indirectly advertising and increasing the numbers of the MAR. For good and for bad.

I've planned a few events in my lifetime (none involving vehicles though) and you can never please everyone. But the goal should certainly be to please the majority and make it a success. I think that MOST of the BOD members still hold that hope.

Good luck.

 

[jymmiejamz]

Maybe ROAV just needs a president that believes in hope and change... LOL

 

[chrisvonc]

Originally Posted by lrmike
Peggy and I personally did extensive research into other large driving events of all brands. The MAR was the only one allowing uninhibited access on private land. Some of the other venues, such as the SOLAROS and the National, use public access trail networks and properties - places you can go on your own at most anytime. Venues such as Rausch Creek and Crozet are private off road parks governed by their own rules with their own insurance and waivers, as well as admission fees.

Guess your "extensive research" did not include SCARR.

From the Texas Rovers website on SCARR 2008:
This year, Texas Rovers has reserved Barnwell for 4 days (April 17th-20) exclusively for SCARR 2008, and the park will be closed to the General Public. In doing this we have been able to extend the rally from 3 days to 4 days. Also, we have rolled ALL of the fees - SCARR + Barnwell Mountain Daily Use and Camping Fees into one fee. You will NOT have to pay any other fees when you reach the rally!

Barnwell Mountain website

I stand by my statement

?? What statement were you trying to stand behind with quoting the Texas Rover SCARR public announcement? Dan said you didnt do your research and you didnt. MAR is NOT the only event that allows uninhibited access on private land and has not been for years. All of the past SCARR events held at Barnwell mountain have been uninhibited access on the property during operational hours. The situation with properties insurance and waivers changed considerably when Texas Rovers decided to reserve the entire park for the event and we had to come up with our own insurance and very specific waivers to cover ourselves in closing the park.

 

[Alyssa]

... we've rarely gotten more than 3 postcards a year for the events and ABM announcements. I think a few years back (2002?) we got a membership directory and some other info.

I got the membership directory years ago (which had my information incorrect), but haven't received a single piece of mail or e-mail from ROAV since. I don't know when the annual meeting is... should I be checking in with the website to figure that out? Like I have time to remember to do that? It's not like there is any reason for me to be visiting the ROAV website for another purpose. I have never received ANY benefit by being a "member" of ROAV... absolutely no communication, no newsletters, no invitations to events... I think it's crazy that I have to join and pay for membership that doesn't treat me like a member. If legally the membership is required to go to MAR, then it should be included in the cost of MAR, not listed seperately as a mandatory charge.

 

[D Chapman]

ROAV plays the insurance card to boost membership and revenue. They claim "for insurance reasons, you must be a member". Those claims are all over the net from ROAV.

Although I hold an insurance license (limited line), I do not understand all the logistics. But, if this was truly the case, why do you not have to join Big Dogs to attend any of their events? While we're talking about the big boyz, how about Big Boys Playground - they do not require membership. What about RCPFA, do they require membership on "open weekends"? Do you have to be a member of the Baltimore 4-Wheelers to attend their OHV event every year? How about Mountianeer Off-Road, do they require membership for the Children's Charity event?

Again, I might be talking out of my ass here, but it does kind of raise a flag.

 

[rovercanus]

I've seen Dan talk out his ass, it's all ugly and gushy.
I'm with Allysa. The first year I joined ROAV the only recognition I ever go was a cashed check.
Let's ask Mike this. Now that MAR is not at Pearls Pond, will member dues still be used to improve the property?

 

[JohnK]

I got the membership directory years ago (which had my information incorrect), but haven't received a single piece of mail or e-mail from ROAV since. I don't know when the annual meeting is... .

I have received at least three post cards from ROAV for at least the last two years - ABM, Spring/Fall Rally, and MAR.

If legally the membership is required to go to MAR, then it should be included in the cost of MAR, not listed seperately as a mandatory charge.

There is 'a rat' in separate.