04 DII Natural Gas Conversion?

[jmjunker]

Has anyone converted a DII to natural gas?

Are there any companies out there that sell coversion kits for Land Rover? I'm curous about this and would like to look into it a bit more.

I know someone who owns 2 coverted goverment cars and really likes 'em...if needed he can just hit a toggle switch and go back to gas. Also, he is going to order a fill station device that installs in his garage and it will re-fuel his vehicles overnight...in California it also gets around the fuel taxes because it comes from the household natural gas feed. Right now with the rebates, it is about $1500+install.


Thanks!!!

Josh

 

[jmjunker]

Here is a pic of the NG fuel station.

http://www.myphill.com/

 

[Herkvet]

There are a few companies in the United Kingdom that make Land Rover specific conversion kits, and a few companies in the US that make universal kits. Do a search for "CNG conversions."
CNG in the UK is cost efficient because of the high petrol tax they have to pay versus natural gas; in the US the cost difference between petrol and natural gas isn't big enough to make it worthwhile.
On the other hand the benefits of using CNG are cleaner emissions, cleaner engine, and more efficient combustion (less detonation). CNG produces less energy per gallon, but it's also rated at 110 octane, so performance is about equal to petrol.
That home unit is pretty sweet--that would add another benefit to CNG, convenience!

 

[p m]

Josh, a quick one: in California, you cannot have an LPG tank inside the passenger compartment, period.
That alone practically does it in for Land Rovers, with two exceptions - round tank in stock tank location, or two long cylinders between the sills and framerails. Neither offers a lot of LPG storage room.

 

[Tree Trimmer]

Check out RPI, I think they have a eliptical tank for under car mount. 80 liters. I think it's rpiv8.com

Tim

 

[jettfuel]

What sort of mileage do you get per liter of LPG? Meaning how big of a tank for the same overall distance as our gas tanks?

 

[Herkvet]

What sort of mileage do you get per liter of LPG? Meaning how big of a tank for the same overall distance as our gas tanks?

From what I've read, about a 10% decrease in MPG. An 80 liter LPG tank is about 21 gallons; at 12MPG thats about 250 miles per tankful.

IMO--If your using the home refuel unit, I would add two smaller LPG cylinders on each side of the gas tank, and keep your vehicle's original fuel tank. The LPG capacity would be smaller, but you would be able to refuel every night. How much do you need for a daily commute? Plus range would be increased significantly using LPG first then switching to gas on long trips.

 

[p m]

There are many benefits of LPG - including smoother running and longer lasting engine (although with a closed-loop EFI this became less important). You will run fewer miles per gallon, or miles per pound of fuel, on LPG than on gasoline. Cost-wise, I don't know - natural gas prices rose dramatically in the last year.

 

[jmjunker]

There are many benefits of LPG - including smoother running and longer lasting engine (although with a closed-loop EFI this became less important). You will run fewer miles per gallon, or miles per pound of fuel, on LPG than on gasoline. Cost-wise, I don't know - natural gas prices rose dramatically in the last year.

My buddy says the city fill station that he uses has a price per gallon equivalent and I think he said it was a little over a dollar per gallon equivalent, but I'll double check with him.

Also, I briefly looked under my rover and noticed that there is a torpedo-tube sized space to the inside of my side steps...maybe 3-4 feet long each. Hah, but can you imaging putting on rock guards for your CNG tanks...that would be very cool! 8p

Josh

 

[dave_lucas]

Cost-wise, I don't know - natural gas prices rose dramatically in the last year.

I heat my house / shop with Propane and late last summer when I purchased propane for the year it was $1.50 per gallon.

 

[p m]

Yeah, if I put CNG or LPG tanks under the sills, I'd be building one hell of rock guards for them!
Unfortunately, there is not a whole lot of space, and I don't know who makes long and slim tanks.

 

[racerwad]

rpi used to sell the tanks that went under the sills but have stopped because it just isn't a smart place for it. i have been looking into LPG (not CNG or natural gas) and rpi's kit that replaces the stock tank and then adds an alt regular fuel tank is a great solution. LPG is propane is anywhere that sells propane for bbq's, etc, can fill you up. keep in mind that this is NOT the same as natural gas that goes into your house. there are no home fill stations for LPG/propane but it is the most commonly available "alternative fuel source" in the nation, regardless of what those BS chevy E85 commercials say.

check out http://www.eere.energy.gov/afdc/infrastructure/refueling.html for some really helpful information. they have an interactive map that shows where all the LPG (not natural gas) fueling stations are in your area and can help you build a route for a road trip based on fueling points.

i did the math for milage based on rpi's advice and the 80 liter tank is good for around 200mi. plenty for the average city stuff i do day to day. add a couple fuel jerry cans at 10 gallons each for long trips (which look right on a disco anyway ) and you've got the range needed for longer trips. and you'd be surprised who sells propane (LPG) that isn't on the AFDC website because they don't consider themselves a fueling station.

hope this helps.

andy

 

[p m]

Thanks Andy -
200mi is not very long range in California, unfortunately. At 75 mph cruising speed, my D1 and LWB make about 320-380 miles...
But my jeep's range is about 180 miles, and there's plenty of room for either tank. I need to think it over.

 

[racerwad]

yeah, it all depends on what sort of driving you do. 200mi is a conservative estimate but it'll put me at the ski resort and back plus, there are two LPG fill stations between me and the hill and i'd still have the gas tank of 8 gallons, which is good for around 80 miles, absolute worst case scenario.

 

[p m]

Thanks for the link, btw, I found an LPG filling station about 3 miles from my work.
Have you heard anything about underbelly LPG tanks affected by the heat from pavement?

 

[Tree Trimmer]

One thing to consider(from what I've read) is when running dual fuel, it's very unlikely to set the engine up to run optimally on either fuel. The better it runs on propane the worse on gas, and vice versa. There is a lot of info on propane and the various systems(injection/carb) on the international sites and on outer limits 4x4. I have considered building a propane only engine but I would have to have a tank at home and, I figure, the under car mounted tank and one behind the rear seat. I can't remember the exact figure but that would be in the mid thirty gal. range (80% of 160 liters). The tank at home is an option here with some training to get a certification to fill tanks. Only problem is I may be moving soon. Might be a little expensive also.

For dual fuel and fuel injection mega squirt seems to be a good option. I'd opt for simplicity myself.

I agree there are a lot of places that sell propane for portable tanks, I wonder if it would be different for auto mounted tanks. I haven't asked that question here in NC yet and there are limited "auto filling stations" here. A few around the larger cities. Some truck stops fill autos, motor homes, etc.

Tim

 

[racerwad]

tree-

it's true that you'll have to favor performance for one of the two fuels. if you're in a position where you're thinking about running LPG/gasoline, then you're probably mentally in a position where you're ready to make that compromise about which you'll favor more. i know when i get my kit there are enough LPG filling stations around and the benefits are so huge that my D2 will be tuned to maximize performance on LPG.

 

[WHM304]

Has anyone found a kit in the U.S. made for a DII? How hard would it be to put a "universal" kit on the car.

 

[Rocky]

You also need to find a DOT approved set up. That will be hard for anything coming from the UK.

I'd also assume the EEC/UK systems are set up in metric and US systems aren't...

Think a company called Bully Dog does propane systems for diesels. That at least might give you some help.

 

[Tree Trimmer]

I contacted a guy, "propaneguy@hotmail.com" about a propane setup. He said he could supply the parts but we didn't get into specifics. He might be able to help.

Tim