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Old 05-13-2011, 04:07 PM   #1
nrene
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Default What does a timing chain sound like when it breaks?

So I was dropping a package @ UPS, and the truck died while idling. No fuss, just idling, felt a 'miss' and it died.

Tried to start, and the starter wouldn't even turn it over.

Towed it home on a flatbed, and tried to start it one more time, and it turns, but sounds VERY BAD inside... like a chain being ground up (or like a cement mixer in a way)...

122k on it...

Could it be anything else?
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Old 05-13-2011, 05:15 PM   #2
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Default Re: What does a timing chain sound like when it breaks?

Sure it could be something else. You could have lost an oil pump and ate your bearings or any number of other bottom end kinds of things.

Drain your oil and see if its a liquid or a semi-solid sparkling mess, or if you have a moccachino in there.
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Old 05-13-2011, 05:18 PM   #3
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Default Re: What does a timing chain sound like when it breaks?

I think that sound is money falling out of your wallet.
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Old 05-13-2011, 05:22 PM   #4
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Default Re: What does a timing chain sound like when it breaks?

You will notice a rattling noise underneath your vehicle's hood when you start it. If the chain is loose, you may hear a loud, knocking sound from the engine. It may backfire or misfire.
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Old 05-13-2011, 05:22 PM   #5
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Default Re: What does a timing chain sound like when it breaks?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jafir
I think that sound is money falling out of your wallet.
Maybe a little... not too bad since I have a spare motor in the garage... but definitely will make this one cost more to rebuild / resell.
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Old 05-13-2011, 05:25 PM   #6
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Default Re: What does a timing chain sound like when it breaks?

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Originally Posted by thejaw77
You will notice a rattling noise underneath your vehicle's hood when you start it. If the chain is loose, you may hear a loud, knocking sound from the engine. It may backfire or misfire.
I haven't let it turn over long enough to start, it sounded bad enough, I didn't want to grind it up more than it was...

I'm thinking about swapping with my other motor and then taking a peak inside this one and seeing if it's fixable within reason.
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Old 05-13-2011, 05:29 PM   #7
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Default Re: What does a timing chain sound like when it breaks?

don't try to start it. The valves are hitting the pistons
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Old 05-13-2011, 05:30 PM   #8
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Default Re: What does a timing chain sound like when it breaks?

I'd try to confirm how bad it is broken first. And if it's just a chain, that shouldn't be too hard of a fix.

You won't have compression if the chain broke. I'd pull a spark plug or two and check compression. On some cars you can just look down through the oil filler cap and see if the rocker arms are moving, but I just check on my 99 and there is something blocking the view.
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Old 05-13-2011, 05:37 PM   #9
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Default Re: What does a timing chain sound like when it breaks?

do not check compression! the valves are hitting the pistons
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Old 05-13-2011, 05:39 PM   #10
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Default Re: What does a timing chain sound like when it breaks?

Quote:
Originally Posted by robertf
do not check compression! the valves are hitting the pistons
If that's true, damage is already done. The engine was RUNNING and then died.
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Old 05-13-2011, 05:42 PM   #11
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Default Re: What does a timing chain sound like when it breaks?

I'm going to take a look at what I'm working with, likely on an engine stand, before I turn it over again...

I'm not sure checking the compression is going to help, it needed the heads done anyway, so I doubt that would tell me much.
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Old 05-13-2011, 05:43 PM   #12
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Default Re: What does a timing chain sound like when it breaks?

they always were running when the chain breaks.

Trying to start it again can make the difference in a few new valves or a complete set of valves and pistons
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Old 05-13-2011, 06:46 PM   #13
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Default Re: What does a timing chain sound like when it breaks?

Quote:
Originally Posted by robertf
don't try to start it. The valves are hitting the pistons
While I have not physically checked this, there is nothing in the overhaul manual or anywhere else that leads me to believe that a 4.0 or 4.6 is an interference motor. The original Buick 215 wasn't, and I don't believe that has changed.

Do you have a source that says otherwise?
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Old 05-13-2011, 07:00 PM   #14
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Default Re: What does a timing chain sound like when it breaks?

observed it on a 4.0
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Old 05-14-2011, 09:19 AM   #15
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Default Re: What does a timing chain sound like when it breaks?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarylJ
While I have not physically checked this, there is nothing in the overhaul manual or anywhere else that leads me to believe that a 4.0 or 4.6 is an interference motor. The original Buick 215 wasn't, and I don't believe that has changed.

Do you have a source that says otherwise?

Darryl:
There are some here who have much experience with these engines. Sadly, some of that experience includes having put a timing chain on wrong and now there is a pile of broken rocker shafts, bent valves and badly bruised ego.

If you disbelieve everything else you read here, please believe me when I say that these are most definitely interference engines.

Robert, they don't always break when they are running. The highest torque is applied at start-up when everything is static. Freelander chains seem to break on stat-up far more often than while running.
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Old 05-14-2011, 10:24 AM   #16
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Default Re: What does a timing chain sound like when it breaks?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ptschram
If you disbelieve everything else you read here, please believe me when I say that these are most definitely interference engines.
Yeah, I'll take word of you and Robert on the interference of course, it's just always been my experience with OTHER interference engines that if it was running when the chain or belt broke, that the next step is pulling the heads off anyway.

So is the 4.6L interference also? I notice that is has nice dished pistons to keep the compression ratio close to the same as the 4.0L
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Old 05-14-2011, 11:01 AM   #17
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Default Re: What does a timing chain sound like when it breaks?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ptschram
If you disbelieve everything else you read here, please believe me when I say that these are most definitely interference engines.
It's not that I have a problem believing a consensus of people here, but when I her something from one person that doesn't add up (why do the factory tear down procedures not indicate that it is interference like every other factory manual for an interference motor I've seen - it's kind of important information to know during a build) I like to be sure.
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Old 05-14-2011, 01:17 PM   #18
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Default Re: What does a timing chain sound like when it breaks?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarylJ
It's not that I have a problem believing a consensus of people here, but when I her something from one person that doesn't add up (why do the factory tear down procedures not indicate that it is interference like every other factory manual for an interference motor I've seen - it's kind of important information to know during a build) I like to be sure.
The 3.5 litre is also an interference engine. You might wanna go back and look at that Buick 215 because I suspect you'll find it was an interference engine.


As for why the FSM doesn't say anything, I don't know that I've seen it in other FSMs either.

I tend to assume an engine is interference as that's the safest assumption.
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Old 05-14-2011, 03:47 PM   #19
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Default Re: What does a timing chain sound like when it breaks?

Hell yeah its an interference engine, fucker always interferes with my paycheck and state of mind
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Old 05-15-2011, 04:56 PM   #20
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Default Re: What does a timing chain sound like when it breaks?

LMAO.....rover4x4....
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