Bushings service

Asolo3j

Well-known member
Nov 8, 2004
1,267
1
Annapolis
I am getting a local shop to press in all new bushings in my D1. I have the full kit of bushings with hardware and I'm also having them install a new rear ball joint if needed. What would be the general time needed for this service? I confirmed that the shop has a suitable press and I am bringing him all the parts. I've been soaking things in PB blaster to hopefully help the old ones out.

It looks like a pretty tedious job. Drop the radius arm, remove bushing (which can be a pain in and of itself), install new, refit, etc.... but I want to make sure I'm not gonna get screwed.

Thanks.
 

asmith996

Well-known member
Dec 1, 2005
670
0
Rockville, MD
Why is this posted in the general section? Why can't we keep the tech in the tech! People are trying to goof off here, and you are just contributing, go try that shit on Pirate NooB, see how they treat you there!

















Sorry, had to. :p I have nothing to contribute though, so I'll go sit in my corner.
 

Asolo3j

Well-known member
Nov 8, 2004
1,267
1
Annapolis
Well, since you asked....
It's not really Tech. I'm not asking how to do it, what parts I need or what that creaking/crunching sound is. That would be tech. (if you search the tech you'll see that I researched all the parts, prices and hardware for the job and posted it up for others to see too... that's tech.)

This is finding out how much I can expect to pay a shop for their services. I was hoping to hear from PT, atholmotor, Justin, or any other Rover service person to give me an idea of what this shop would charge me. This is not true "tech" and the reason I posted it up in General.
 

JSQ

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2004
3,259
1
44
San Diego, CA
It's a miserable job.

If you're using some harbor freight chinese guillotine press like I was it takes somewhere around eleventy billion hours.
 

asmith996

Well-known member
Dec 1, 2005
670
0
Rockville, MD
Asolo3j said:
Well, since you asked....
It's not really Tech. I'm not asking how to do it, what parts I need or what that creaking/crunching sound is. That would be tech. (if you search the tech you'll see that I researched all the parts, prices and hardware for the job and posted it up for others to see too... that's tech.)

This is finding out how much I can expect to pay a shop for their services. I was hoping to hear from PT, atholmotor, Justin, or any other Rover service person to give me an idea of what this shop would charge me. This is not true "tech" and the reason I posted it up in General.

Sorry it didn't come through right, I was just throwing out a (evidently poor) parody of the responses that get put up when someone posts non-tech in tech.

I wasn't being serious at all, sorry for the confusion, good luck with getting the work done!
 

flyfisher11

Well-known member
May 25, 2005
8,676
2
61
Wolf Laurel NC
JSQ said:
It's a miserable job.

If you're using some harbor freight chinese guillotine press like I was it takes somewhere around eleventy billion hours.

Man you have one of those high filutin' presses. I just use the bench vise and sockets and a big hammer and long pipe for leverage;)
 
First off, did you also provide a new track rod and adjuster sleeve, along with tie rod ends? The track rod and sway bar need to be removed to allow the radius arms to be removed.

If the hardware comes off easily, I believe book time is an even hour for each side of the radius arms. Panhard rod is 0.5 hours. The trailing arms are similar. The upper A-arms can be a real bitch if rusty. I strongly sugest that you tell the guys doing the work to just use a cut-off tool to remove the existing hardware and arms. You can chew up huge amounts of time with no benefit trying to remove rusty hardware.

Having the correct tools to use in the press is priceless and makes the job almost enjoyable. I have many hours invested in making press tooling to make the job palatable and buying a new cut-off tool that was big enough to remove the arms was an equal God-send!

Anything less than six hours is fair.
 

Asolo3j

Well-known member
Nov 8, 2004
1,267
1
Annapolis
THANKS!

I have a DanChapman HD tie rod and drag link with newer TREs. Rear sway is gone, front sway I've had off before and that wasn't too bad to remove/refit.

I will let them know to cut off buggered hardware when I hand them the bags of new stuff.

6-7 hrs is what I had in mind, thanks for the help!
 

JustAddMtns

Well-known member
Jun 22, 2007
1,877
0
NC
It is heart warming to see a nice productive conversation that leads to an answer and a "thank you."
 

peter sherman

Well-known member
May 10, 2004
3,072
0
Fake Forest, IL
The rear arm is a bloody whore if it decides to hose you. More than likely it will! I remove the whole damn thing & do it on a bench. You need a BFH for the bolts unless you have a big ass press. Heat & smack the bolts back & forth till you can drive them out all the way. Search Muskyman's tech.
 

Roverlady

Well-known member
Apr 20, 2004
7,825
0
45
Shenandoah valley
This is a job that I've been dreaming about doing on my truck. (How sad does that sound?!)

It sounds like it could be either an on-going project for the owner or a timely (expensive?) job for a shop.

What do most people suggest? Do it yourself or let the pros handle it? (Tool availability aside)

Asolo, would you mind sharing how much $$ you will have into the entire service when you are finished?
 

rover4x4

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2004
5,228
45
41
North Carolina, Raleigh
Ive done alot on my truck, this time I paid someone to do the rear Aarm its was well worth whatever I paid. I think someone that knows what they are doing can do it at least a couple hours.
 

DiscoJen

Well-known member
Aug 27, 2004
3,652
0
54
The Lou!
Roverlady said:
What do most people suggest? Do it yourself or let the pros handle it? (Tool availability aside)

I did mine myself....partly. I did one section at a time. All I did was the removal of the actual body parts ie: radius arms and took them down to a big truck/spring shop that I knew had a big ass press. They charged me about $12 to press in the new bushings for each set (front, rear, etc.).

The rear a-arm I took my truck to a "friend" that had his own Rover repair shop. He said he could do it in an hour. I doubled checked with him to make sure he had a press big enough to do the rear since I had heard that those take an incredible amount of force to get them out. He assured me he had everything he needed to do the job right. After 2 days I still didn't have my truck. So I went up to the shop to help him. When I got there he had a tiny little hand-held press (I'm not shitting you!). After 4 hours of struggling with that little thing, he finally broke down and went to Harbor Freight and bought a more heavy duty press. In this process of using the wrong tool, he sliced the boot and basically trashed the new a-arm bushing. Then to beat it all, he charged me $450 and I did half the work!!! Then he tried to steal a vintage Mini that I had at his shop...wait, that's a different story...:)

But yeah, I wouldn't do the rear a-arm bushing by myself for nuttin! But take it to someone who really knows what they are doing.
 

flyfisher11

Well-known member
May 25, 2005
8,676
2
61
Wolf Laurel NC
Roverlady said:
This is a job that I've been dreaming about doing on my truck. (How sad does that sound?!)

It sounds like it could be either an on-going project for the owner or a timely (expensive?) job for a shop.

What do most people suggest? Do it yourself or let the pros handle it? (Tool availability aside)

Asolo, would you mind sharing how much $$ you will have into the entire service when you are finished?

Buy Dan a case of beer or a good bottle of Tequila and have him do it!;)

Cheers,

Mike
 

derrickalda

Well-known member
i did my panhard the other day. i have a 50 ton press and it took 15 minutes to pop out and refit new ones. my radius arms and rear links came with new bushings when i replaced them.

i would imagine youre pretty close in thinking 6-7 hrs (full day)
 

Asolo3j

Well-known member
Nov 8, 2004
1,267
1
Annapolis
It goes in on Monday for the bushings service. I will post up $$ paid for service, hardware, etc... once it's all done and I will also update the Tech post with that info too. I'll link these two posts together when I update to make sure when someone searches, they get the info they need. I made sure the shop has a 20-ton press and the owner claimed that he did. It's a really small shop and I expect to leave the D1 there for a couple days so my expectations aren't too high on the turnover rate, but we'll see.

Thanks again for the input. I am putting together a list of "do's and don'ts" that I'll leave on the front seat when I drop it off... that way the shop guys can get info if they want it.
 

Asolo3j

Well-known member
Nov 8, 2004
1,267
1
Annapolis
Got my D1 back from the shop. WOW... what a difference. All the poping, crunching and slop is gone. The truck drives and feel so much tighter.

The bad part is that I am a bit lighter in the wallet. I was planning on this repair to be a $500-$600 total job for parts, hardware, labor, etc... I was off by a couple hundred.

I chose the DAP Inc. OEM bushings kit $99.95. It is a complete kit with front and rear bushings, including both f&r sway bar bushings. I chose NOT to buy the kit that included the hardware. This could be considered a mistake by some, and not by others. It took me a bit to source out the hardware. The only "local" place that carries large size Std Grade-8 or Metric Class 8.8 (or class 10) is Tractor Supply... and they have a limited selection. I paid $3.88 per pound for the Grade-8 hardware and I could only find the large 5/8" x 4" and 3/4" x 4" bolts and nylocks for the 5/8". I also used four 3/4" Grade-8 washers for the ends of the radius arm and trailing arm that back up to the M20 nylock nuts. While there, I also picked up some Grade-8 hardware for the rear trailing arm bushings that mount to the frame with washers, lock washers and nylocks to match. My total bill at Tractor Supply Company was $12.75

I still had to source out all of the large Metric stuff and the other hardware pieces. After searching around at Fastenall, various other marine and hardware stores, I fanally ended up ordering from www.mcmaster.com. I may have changed my plan and ordered everything from McMaster had I known it was going to be as difficult to source the hardware locally. The downside to ordering with McMaster is that they only sell in quantity. Here is my order.

Metric 8.8 Zinc-pltd Steel Hex Head Cap Screw, M16 Size 100mm Length,2mm Pitch
Metric 8.8 Zinc-pltd Steel Hex Head Cap Screw, M14 Size, 80mm Length, 2mm Pitch
Grade 8 Hex Nylon-insert Locknut, Znc-yellow Pltd, 3/4"-10 Screw Sz, 1-1/16"w, 7/8"h
Metric Zinc-plated Steel Nylon-insert Locknut, M20 Screw Sz, 2.5mm Pitch
Metric Zinc-plated Steel Nylon-insert Locknut, M16 Screw Size, 2mm Pitch
Metric Zinc-plated Steel Nylon-insert Locknut, M14 Screw Size, 2mm Pitch

I have a few leftovers as most packages came with 10-20 of each of the above. Only 5 in a pack for the M20 nylocks. Total bill from McMaster with shipping was $42.65. Giving me a total for hardware of $55.40. The kit from DAP that included the hardware was a total of $169.95. Granted I "saved" $14.60 by doing it myself, but I did have to go thru a bit of a hassle with finding/ordering it up myself. I do however have extras for when/if I have to do it again (trail spares) or on another vehicle.

I have all the parts, I have all the hardware... time to get it installed. I took it to a small shop in Annapolis that I confirmed has a 20-ton press. I dropped the Disco off on Tuesday morning and expected it to be a few days as they would work it in when possible. I got the D1 back on Wednesday afternoon and they billed me for a total of 8 hrs. I figured that was reasonably fair and had no problems with that. I was also charged a misc shop fee of $45.00. That was for antiseize, lube, and a cutoff wheel they chewed up cutting off 2 stubborn bolts. Ok... that was fair too. What got me was their labor rate. I should have researched that a bit more carefully too. The 8 hr job set me back $780.00 ($97.50/hr labor rate). Ouch!

Lesson learned: I should have considered doing more of the actual install myself. For the almost $800 I could have purchased a Harbor Freight 20-ton press for $200, extra tall jack stands for $40 and the misc tools for $100 to do this myself. Granted it could have taken me a lot longer and if I ran into problems, the backup would have been to take the individual rad arm or whatever to the shop as needed. I then could have sold the press for $100 and still been a few hundered bucks ahead. Well... next time I will know what to do.

*If you do it yourself it's a $500 job if you also need to buy the tooling... it's $300-$400 job if you sell off some of the tools to recoup part of the expense.
*If you source out the parts and pay someone for install, it's a $900-$1000 job.
*If you have someone do it for you completely and use their sourced parts, I would estimate that it's a $1200 job.

I am happy with the end result and replacing the bushings was a solution to my clunk, bang, crunch in the suspension. I learned that this would have been a project that I could have completed and saved a bunch of $$. Thanks to those who gave their input, thanks to PT for his advice and I hope this helps others who are getting their bushings replaced.


Here is the post in the Tech section with all of the resourced data and prices.
http://www.discoweb.org/forums/showthread.php?t=42523

I am also going to post this info in that thread to link the two so that all of the info can be reached by those searching about bushings and bushings replacement.