Syntheic Line - Q/Sand?

ajh · Dec 18, 2007

apg said:
Not sure about this....

I had a 3/4" braided nylon dock line that someone knocked into the water. It hung from the cleat on the pier for a month and got good and fouled by slime and sea growth. Put it in the washing machine to clean it, and it ate the hell out of the line...somehow chaffed it almost in two - or three.

Now maybe nylon, which has a much softer 'hand' than synthetic winch line, is different, but I'd be wary of machine washing.

Cheers

Yeah, don't do that. Treat it like a climbing rope, mild detergent, warm water, and a bathtub or laundry sink and just plunge it repeatedly and the grit will come out over time.

traveltoad · Dec 18, 2007

justinhaaga said:
second break was a double line pull off a tree when i was sideways in price
...

Both the tree breaks were using a strap and d-ring, it broke about mid line between hook and fairlead.

No snatch block?

nathansharkey · Dec 19, 2007

I have seen the synthetic stuff break quite frequently. I am sticking with steel. Boating and mud/sand/ice are 2 extremely different applications. No one has had any luck with synthetic up here in Alberta.

Nathan Sharkey

traveltoad · Dec 19, 2007

nathansharkey said:
I have seen the synthetic stuff break quite frequently. I am sticking with steel. Boating and mud/sand/ice are 2 extremely different applications. No one has had any luck with synthetic up here in Alberta.

Nathan Sharkey

I do agree that if you are going to run synthetic you need to have the tool/skill to splice it for when it breaks.

justinhaaga · Dec 19, 2007

traveltoad said:
No snatch block?

on the double pull for sure.

btw, all my breaks i just made a knot, looked for a eagle scout if there was one, if not good double knot would hold. When it broke again it would never be the knot

For al the hassle, syn is safe therefore it makes it worth it.

Robert Page · Dec 19, 2007

When "Boats" on a USNR Supply ship says it's better than wire rope, then I'll give up my tested wire rope!! Properly cared for wire rope is hard to beat. I just keep a spare 80' length, several clamps, and a 65' winch extension strap from ARB in the truck.

LCDR, USN, ret.

ajh · Dec 19, 2007

justinhaaga said:
on the double pull for sure.

btw, all my breaks i just made a knot, looked for a eagle scout if there was one, if not good double knot would hold. When it broke again it would never be the knot

For al the hassle, syn is safe therefore it makes it worth it.

That is odd because the knot should be the weakest point by at least 33%-50%. Aramid fibres really don't like knots. We use 5mm Maxim Tech cord in climbing and unknotted it's very strong but tie one knot and you're down to the strength of a spectra, re-tie the same one and you might as well have nylon 6-7 (Perlon).

This means there's some outside variable, probably damaged line, a burr on your drum or fairlead, or something in the system that's sharp. You may want to check for those when you get a chance since they're easy to fix.

nathansharkey · Dec 19, 2007

There is a reason why tow trucks don't use it. Also, forestry and farming machinery all use steel cable. My Dodge Power Wagon comes from the Factory with a Warn Winch and Steel Cable. If I lived and whelled on slick rock type terrain where mud and ice is not an issue, I would have changed it our for Synthetic. My terrain/climate is too hard on synthetic, which actually makes the synthetic more dangerous.

Nathan

garrett · Dec 20, 2007

........and the the US military. why? because all of these people do not maintain or work in more controlled environments like we do when we wheel. we're not dragging trees around all day or yanking buses out of ditches over guard rails, etc.
the average recreational off roader that pulls cable once a month will not wear out synthetic rope. i've had mine on my truck for just about 8 years now. i've used it to haul trees out of the woods for days, recover taxi cabs, 20K lb farm tractors in mud and myself.
never is steel cable any safer than synthetic. they both can break at any time. which would you rather be around when it does?

KevinNY · Dec 20, 2007

If you are breaking line that often I would take a good look at your fairlead for burrs or just a sharp back edge. I have seem aluminum hawse fairleads that had a really poor radius on the back side.

justinhaaga · Dec 20, 2007

fairlead is fine. It was brand new. My first break was its first pull ever. I really think my first masterpull 3/8 line was defective. Breaking 3 times, in very controlled enviroment using proper equipment. I called masterpull and sent them pictures of the first break, they ignored me. Oh well.

As for Lanes, I'm not sure about his fairlead it looked new as well. I believe he used his a few times before the pull that broke his.

heres a pic of my first break:

KevinNY · Dec 20, 2007

What I am saying is that even "brand new" fairleads can have a poor radius or an edge that can overstress the line.

traveltoad · Dec 20, 2007

Most synthetic line also does not like heat. If you power out your winch it can easily overheat and weaken the line.

Asolo3j · Dec 20, 2007

In HD syntheic lines knots are a temporary fix, you should have it spliced back together (sailing knowledge). Can you end-for-end a syn winch line after signs of wear on the "used" bitter end to extend the overall life of the line?

nathansharkey · Dec 20, 2007

garrett said:
........and the the US military. why? because all of these people do not maintain or work in more controlled environments like we do when we wheel. we're not dragging trees around all day or yanking buses out of ditches over guard rails, etc.
the average recreational off roader that pulls cable once a month will not wear out synthetic rope. i've had mine on my truck for just about 8 years now. i've used it to haul trees out of the woods for days, recover taxi cabs, 20K lb farm tractors in mud and myself.
never is steel cable any safer than synthetic. they both can break at any time. which would you rather be around when it does?

We live in different environments. I would rather stand clear all together if given the choice. I understand the safety factor in synthetic with the line not becoming energized and wipping. I have seen the damages from steel line parting. If I was running a rock buggy in Moab, I would go synthetic. In Canada, in the mud, in the snow, in the ice on the salt covered roads with winter lasting 5 months/year (7 months in the mountains) I put my money on steel.

Nathan

MUSKYMAN · Dec 20, 2007

nathansharkey said:
We live in different environments. I would rather stand clear all together if given the choice. I understand the safety factor in synthetic with the line not becoming energized and wipping. I have seen the damages from steel line parting. If I was running a rock buggy in Moab, I would go synthetic. In Canada, in the mud, in the snow, in the ice on the salt covered roads with winter lasting 5 months/year (7 months in the mountains) I put my money on steel.

Nathan

cant imagine the conditions are any worse in canada then they are by me and its working great for me and mine sees tons and tons of winter usage.

ajh · Dec 20, 2007

I'm leaning towards using steel in winter and synth in summer, it's not like a steel line is expensive. I just really prefer not having kinking etc issues. You can also always carry a spare steel line for what $65 or less if it's shorter and get the best of both.

nathansharkey · Dec 20, 2007

Hey Musky, is there a lot of ice/salt on the roads where you live Musky? Maybe you have a superior brand than we have from the local retailers up here? What brand and size are you running? Have you had the joy of using frozen synthetic? If you were a synthetic salesman, why would I choose your line? I want to go synthetic, I am leary though.

Nathan

MUSKYMAN · Dec 20, 2007

sometimes there are piles of salt 6" deep in the center of intersections near me

I use the 3/8" Dyneema fiber rope from master pull.

I have had the last 6" or so that is exposed get stiff put it has not been a problem.

As I posted in the thread I put 30' to 35' of dark green webbing over my line when I installed it and that way when its all wound on the spool the line is all covered from the elements, thats snow ,road salt or UV and UV is a huge concern to me because in the research I did UV light seems to be the largest threat.

I have a MM hydro winch so my line never gets heated like some of the warn guys does so that may help me out. but I am just so convinced of the handling and safty I will not go back.

hope this helps

Thom

peter sherman · Dec 20, 2007

Theres a huge differance between Amsteel & Amseel blue.
3/8" 14,100 Amsteel *
3/8" 20,445 & Amsteel blue
EDIT Not on Samsons site but one of the largest riggers on the East Coast. They make red green orange for special order...

from samsons site [the only manu of Amsteel]
Stronger than wire
Same elongation as wire
Extremely light
Highly abrasion resistant
Non-rotational
Class 2 12-Strand splice
Stronger than AmSteel !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Much stronger than steel
Very low stretch
Easily spliced

http://www.samsonrope.com/index.cfm?const=12-Strand#87

Any bend [ESP sharp] lowers the strenth in any line more over line that doesn't stretch doing this repeadly will break down the fibers. Therefore useing sharp bends IE hard side pulls & snatch blocks will decrease the strenth & longevity.
I am not saying not to use the line beaware that a sharp 180 can reduce BS by 50%.
14100* - 50%=7050 Thats way guys use a large thimbles for there I splices.
I always use a luggage tag with an I splice its stronger by perhaps 20%. It may not last as long but I can whip a splice in this stuff in less that 2 min..

Syntheic Line - Q/Sand?

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