Immigration

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i really dont understand why this is even an "issue" to begin with. there are laws.. period. im not anti-mexican, or anti-anybody for that matter, but why in the hell would immigration laws not be followed? especially in consideration of the great fabricated terror scare of modern times? you would think that even if just for show, the adminstration would try to make it *look* like we give a f8ck about who crosses our borders. but they dont.. just try to immigrate to an EU country, and good luck in doing so, because unless you have EU blood, it wont happen.. why? because they enforce their immigration laws.. like any modern civilized nation should. theres a bigger picture here and it ties to this countries sell out to corporate interests and little green pieces of paper.

gil stevens said:

just try to immigrate to an EU country,

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Or any other even mildly developed country.

okay, I'll help start the debate:

dont upset the lives and familes of those already here, its not their fault they wanted a better life and have it now cause we didnt take border security seriously enough. they have kids, in school, many of whom were born here and are citizens, how do you go telling mom she cant stay but her 4 year old can?

take some of the public servants -I admire what they do and respect their commitment and risks they assume-its worthy of valor:but those who spend their days parked on my block writing tickets in a well off neibhor hood for petty crap filling quotas getting free meals in town(i see the guy who wrote me ticket for 11 miles over the limit in my d2 on his 2 hr lunch break where i too buy my burrito-there's not alot of crime here and an aweful lot of cops since the economy here is doing better) and have them enforce our borders so our citizens dont gripe about it on forums. the gripe is valid, but the onus of protecting our borders is where the gov't has failed you all, why not hate the adminstration? do you have any idea how many H1's had to return? they were here functionally, working paying taxes, but grouped into the herd of illegals once they lost sponsorship. down went their fiances, and their lives. why? what makes that fair? why is a non citizen devoid of the same rights to life liberty and happines, and why are we so defiant to those already here? when the wall in europe came down, up wnet many new laws and much more border enforecemnt

we dont have it together as a nation to protect our own border then we want to kill and oust those that made it across with not so much as an inkling of humanity or compassion

when you go to the mall, they take measures to make sure you dont steal. why cant we lock up our borders? I am pro 25 foot high fence. US is not the only nation with borders. immigration to say Austrailia is very difficult. but legally possible. we need to learn and follow that-clearly our open door policy needs to change

we once embraced that open door policy, now we dont

& provide a path for functional members of society. deport criminals/felons. I see legal welfare recipients as the same type of drain on our economy as non tax paying migrant workers. and all these millions on public assistance stay home and eat for free, that bugs me more than the guy mowing my lawn for a living in 95 degree heat..

go after the employers, they have deep pockets and are the core of the problem. if they werent hiring them illegals they would not be telling all their relatives to come too

most illegasl dont come here to mooch for a free ride. this isnt canada they dont get free healthcare.

dont let any more illegals come in, thast #1 mission.

#2 as a person of color, i am pro naturalization, if youre here and work, youre not all that bad, if you owe taxes, lets get you on a payment plan, more profitable and humane. IF youre a bad element and come here whether you work or not, we dont need no more damn felons get the f out. i dont want my taxes to pay to feed your illegal felon ass in jail. go starve in your own homeland..

#3the new federal system in test in some states is very nice, it checks SS name number against legal status with DHS(which engulfed INS), if its can be made available to all employers, they will not hire illegals. simple solution, I support DHS on this one.

#4 make the fees reasonable and the laws, my wifes canadian and fortunatley we can afford the $2200 lawyer and the $1500 filing fee, but really, making it prohibitive for folks to gain sponsorship is stupid. If a citizen goes to mexico and falls in love with lovely woman and marrys her then she is automatically a US citizen, thast seems free ride ish to me. but thats fine, our laws say so. if said mexican comes to USA and then gets divorced, what does she do? Now she has to get an employer to sponsor her? Or leave the us after living here and building a life, etc? I thinks thast unfair to the lovely woman.

#5 we have this retarded law that if you overstay your visa for more than 6 months you can not re-enter for 10 years. I wanna have a talk with the old farts who made that law. with whipping stick in my hand..

flame suit on...

ptschram said:

Or any other even mildly developed country.

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precisely.. and i understand alot of the EU and other countries have population issues and limited land space issues that we do not have, but thats still no excuse. only a merry band of morons would do nothing about immigration law especially since it such a visible issue..

A former employee of my wife's is planning to move to Australia.
She's a pharmacist.
She had to apply for a job, have a potential employer demonstrate that she was not taking a job from an Australian, has to pay several thousand dollars in application fees, and must pass an English literacy test, among other things. She also had to show she has been gainfully employed as a pharmacist for the past 2 years, and will need to take the certification exams upon arrival.
My wife wrote her a letter of recommendation.

I can't imagine what it would be like for an illiterate lettuce-picker to try to get into Australia.

the other element to this story that i fail to comprehend is this "sanctuary state" bullsh*t.. im all for peoples rights and im last one to ok a big brother type atmosphere, although we already there and it appears orwell was about 20 years off the mark.. anyway, law enforcement cant inquire to citzenship? are u f8cking kidding me?? they can search cars? they can search people getting on subways? they can listen to phone calls and intercept emails? but yet there is this great void when it comes to asking someone who somehow attracted the attention of law enforcement if they are citizen? who thought of this nonsense?

jim-00-4.6 said:

A former employee of my wife's is planning to move to Australia.
She's a pharmacist.
She had to apply for a job, have a potential employer demonstrate that she was not taking a job frocm an Australian, has to pay several thousand dollars in application fees, and must pass an English literacy test, among other things. She also had to show she has been gainfully employed as a pharmaist for the past 2 years, and will need to take the certification exams upon arrival.
My wife wrote her a letter of recommendation.

I can't imagine what it would be like for an illiterate lettuce-picker to try to get into Australia.

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Sounds pretty much like the American system.

gil stevens said:

the other element to this story that i fail to comprehend is this "sanctuary state" bullsh*t.. im all for peoples rights and im last one to ok a big brother type atmosphere, although we already there and it appears orwell was about 20 years off the mark.. anyway, law enforcement cant inquire to citzenship? are u f8cking kidding me?? they can search cars? they can search people getting on subways? they can listen to phone calls and intercept emails? but yet there is this great void when it comes to asking someone who somehow attracted the attention of law enforcement if they are citizen? who thought of this nonsense?

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it would be a tragedy if every time someone got pulled over they needed to show their walking papers.WTF?

why not put Hitler back in power?
elect a KKK offical as president why dont ya?

we have a problem and we need to solve it with less ignorance than a witch hunt.

i am always amazed at how little compassion and how few intelligent life forms hold civil liberties in value.

if you tried to search my ass while getting on a subway or felt it was okay to just search my car, I'd have a fist full for ya..

save it
ever hear of probable cause?
ACLU?
hmmm

msggunny said:

Just curious about the subject, whats your take on the current situation with the immigration issue.

Here is mine:

I feel that laws we have need to be enforced to the letter of the law. Why should anyone get a free ticket to the US when there are thousands of people who wait years and pay thousands of dollars to come here legally? My buddies wife and my wife had to go through several months of waiting, countless forms and background checks, over $1500 in fees just to get a Fiance Visa, not to mention what they had to do to get their permanent residency.

Sorry, i personally know how bad it sucks to live in a 3rd world country having lived in them for 3 years but that is no excuse to give anyone a free ticket to the US.

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X2.

Gmook,
If an American goes to Mexico and marries, the spouse isn't automatically a citizen. They still would have to file the immigration paperwork and fees just like a finance visa (though a bit cheaper). Basically they would intitially be a temporary resident, then a conditional perm. resident, then a perm resident, and only then could they apply for citizenship. My wife went through this process. Although she isn't a citizen (and probablty won't ever apply for it given that Americans can't have dual citizenship as adults).


Anyhow, many illegals complain about the being deported while their children are legal citizens. However they are abusing our system. They know that children born on US soil are automatically citizens (with very few exceptions) and give birth here for a reason.

I'm not gungho on the new proposed laws either. They don't change the fact that most illegals in the US didn't apply for any immigration status. Trying to get them to follow the new laws when they didn't respect the old laws is crazy. And naturalizing "working" illegals who use stolen SSN's.....Grrrrr.

gmookher said:

it would be a tragedy if every time someone got pulled over they needed to show their walking papers.WTF?

why not put Hitler back in power?
elect a KKK offical as president why dont ya?

we have a problem and we need to solve it with less ignorance than a witch hunt.

i am always amazed at how little compassion and how few intelligent life forms hold civil liberties in value.

if you tried to search my ass while getting on a subway or felt it was okay to just search my car, I'd have a fist full for ya..

save it
ever hear of probable cause?
ACLU?
hmmm

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yeah man, finding out the status of someones citizenship is right up there with burning people in ovens you f*cking clown..

wasnt this from you?

"why is a non citizen devoid of the same rights to life liberty and happines"

the answer is .. because they are a non-citizen jackass..

ever been to NYC? especially after 9/11? guess what.. they were searching RANDOM americans regardless of race, age, or gender.. and im sure youd have a whole bunch of fist for the guys with automatic weapons.. open your eyes man.

and for the rest of your over-dramatized bs.. blablabla

have i ever been to NYC?...

...you asshole, you dont need to call me a jackass or a fucking clown you tool of a complete ignorant dickhead. i see you got a great enriched upbringing, go thank your parents NOW. you obviously lack basic debate skills, and have an IQ of a worm if you cannot grasp the slippery slope on which you slide

There are laws that prhobit such witch hunting, and its sad that in NYC they are allowing dickheads like you with badges to single out bearded brown skinned terrorist looking guys like me who drive rovers, its not that they are searching white guys ya know,(just a token thing to 'include all races and genders as part of standard protocal to search em all...so we dont call it what it isROFILING OF THE RACIAL SORT)

I lived there in nyc for 6 years and was there during and after 9/11. where was your sorry ass? reading the paper and feeling like ya know is nice but you havent been and you dont know. Its incompassionate feeble minded heartless piggies who can not even spell ACLU like you I want to roast myself.

Its MORONS with your total callousness for civil liberties that have made the Big Brother syndrome a reality.

keep your anti immgrant sentiments on the internet as in person, you'd quickly know what a mouthful of brown skin tasted like...

GFYS I spent 35 years in metro NYC, and am a proud citizen of INDIA, we're gonna build the rovers youre gonna buy in 10 years, but by then, the buy american setiment and need to fix our ailing econmy will make getting a rover impossible, like defenders

nothing personal Gil...

Gmookher,

Wow, looks like you know how to swear... good for ya.

besides Mcveigh when is the last time you saw a middle class white guy try to blow up a group of buildings or cause mass panic. You haven't. While I agree that sometimes it goes way too far (as in putting a 4 year old on a no fly pass because of his name/nationality) certain measures have to be in place. Yes it is stereotyping, and no personally I dont consider anyone with a turbin or darker/different colored skin a terrorist- untill they prove that they arent. However at certain constrained places such as Airports/bus stations/etc, there needs to be an increased security measure.

If our current security system is being lambasted by you, then maybe you can let us know your grand plan for security in the US.

-I couldnt care less who builds my LR as long as its built to high quality standards. you could build them in Kazakstan(Sp) and as long as they were high quality I wouldnt care.

gmookher said:

have i ever been to NYC?...

...you asshole, you dont need to call me a jackass or a fucking clown you tool of a complete ignorant dickhead. i see you got a great enriched upbringing, go thank your parents NOW. you obviously lack basic debate skills, and have an IQ of a worm if you cannot grasp the slippery slope on which you slide

There are laws that prhobit such witch hunting, and its sad that in NYC they are allowing dickheads like you with badges to single out bearded brown skinned terrorist looking guys like me who drive rovers, its not that they are searching white guys ya know,(just a token thing to 'include all races and genders as part of standard protocal to search em all...so we dont call it what it isROFILING OF THE RACIAL SORT)

I lived there in nyc for 6 years and was there during and after 9/11. where was your sorry ass? reading the paper and feeling like ya know is nice but you havent been and you dont know. Its incompassionate feeble minded heartless piggies who can not even spell ACLU like you I want to roast myself.

Its MORONS with your total callousness for civil liberties that have made the Big Brother syndrome a reality.

keep your anti immgrant sentiments on the internet as in person, you'd quickly know what a mouthful of brown skin tasted like...

GFYS I spent 35 years in metro NYC, and am a proud citizen of INDIA, we're gonna build the rovers youre gonna buy in 10 years, but by then, the buy american setiment and need to fix our ailing econmy will make getting a rover impossible, like defenders

nothing personal Gil...

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well thats all good and nice.. and now that thats out of the way, first things first.. i would be the first defender of civil liberties. all of them.. im not one of the ignortant majority who willfully forgo civil liberties for the sake of perceived security. i think the raping of our constitution and the elimination of many of our civil liberties is abhorent. but there is a fact here that you appear to me, in all my dickheaded ignorance, to be overlooking is that in order to have said liberties.. one must first be a citizen of the country affording the liberties. illegal aliens are not. period. its pretty simple stuff.

and while youd like to pigeon hole me as "anti-immigrant" and "ignorant" and a "feeble minded heartless piggie {??}" i am in fact, quite the opposite. i am not racist, nor am i anti-immigrant. this country is full of immigrants. what i am is anti-ILLEGAL-immigrant.. big difference my indian friend..

and fwiw.. i to was in NYC at that time, so your "reading the paper.." drivel is really out of place. i think its fantastic that you are so open minded to think that we should employ an open border policy and let every person thru to our once great country, but i will have have to respectfully disagree with you.

and in the future, if you dont mind, try to reread what you write before posting.. your overheated babbling gibberish would make a much stronger point if was written a little clearer. [ill spare the insult here]

I agree that it is BS that I can be stopped without any reason to search my person and vehicle and that this is upheld by the SCOTUS. Worse yet is the fact that ICE can also stop anyone and demand proof of citizenship. Challenging them will almost certainly result in an overnight detention. I've been to jail and don't wanna go again, but I will if I'm challenged by an ICE agent. I carry my passport for ID and will slap it up against the head of an ICE agent in a heartbeat.

It is crazy that legal citizens have no fourth amendment rights anymore, yet we are afraid to enforce border controls.

Makes no sense, nor do the multiple reasons that LEOs in NYC can and do stop folks for stupid stuff and end up shooting legal residents 44 times for carrying a pager and a wallet.

PT

well,

land of the free home of the brave

has become:

land of the no longer free(DHS can phone tap and come into your home without probable casue now), home of the fearful(we shun anyone who is unamerican)

I guess its hard to understand the implications of sending someone 'back to their country' and what DEPORTING means unless its happend to someone close to you...or your friends or family. I have had the pleasure of this experience, not my immiodiate family but close enough for me to know I dont like what i see

unless you can really understand what some of these laws will put GOOD people thru. i am sure some of the ILLEGALS are guys just like me, and you, perhaps without the birth certificate youre Greak, italian, Russian etc parents gave you after they came here, many on the same boats we now want to turn back.... ... .. . . . .. . . .

like a silver spoon in your mouths, citizenship gives you human rights and non citizens are given what -- rights of an INSECT?

I dont think its all about Illegals, hell if I dont renew my greencard, suddenly I am an illegal too,its a fine line,

so I tread upon this topic with the feelings I do casue i am alot closer to the guy who hopped a fence to bring his wife and kids to a better place and offered his blood sweat and toil in all earnesty...

if i let a document expire, I suddenly face these outlandish laws that give me zero credit for having been here since I was 8 months old. my dad came here casue USA could not find within its borders enough scientists. Now we're done with cold war and to hell with my dads kids if they dont renew their papers.
I must renounce my own country and say that I am an american first and an indian second, and unless I make siad declaration I am a bad bad man or not worthy of the same rights ...AS YOU? or stuck as a non citizen, pay taxes like the rest but have no vote. hmm taxation without representation, familiar?

and god forbid I let over 6 months pass, with over 35 years here in USA I stand to be thrown out and told I can not return for 10 years

Sorry if I dont think thats fair

i care not what laws get approved by our pedominatly white lawmakers
I am a non white,see?

I have my reasons for remaining an Indian Citizen(property etc)
You'd be 'overheated' too perhaps if youre standing in my sklin, with my shoes, and cousins I used to chill with and take wheeling who are now not allowed to be here...

factor that in when you read my post