95 Disco Starting Problems - Continued

M

Makwa

Guest
Hello again. I have been working over the past couple of weeks on a cold starting problem on my 95 Disco but the problem keeps reappearing.
I have searched and followed other threads here and got some good tips - However.
I have replaced the thermistor - the sensor that sense the engine temperature on start up, the IAC (stepper motor), rotor, cap, high tension leads and today finally the fuel pump.
Aoll to no avail. When I can get it started it runs really great, idle is great, acceleration is great, etc. So replacing these was, ecspensive yes but, worth it. I bought it this past July and every bit of work done on it has improved it immensely. Sometimes I wonder if the previous owner serviced it regulasrly. But I digress.
The display shows error code 14 - thermistor. Thanks to apost by Robbie Donaldson in May my brother in law and I were able to interpret the code and try to clear it. The error code will not clear. We followed the procedure that Robbie posted but 14 keeps coming up.
When the engine is cold is the thermistor open or closed?? Does the thermistor case a richer fuel injection or just a greater quantity?? When the engine is warm does the thermistor stay in the open or closed position. To test the thermistor does it have to be open or closed for a positive circuit test??
We are looking to a circuit test to see if perhaps the thermistor , even the new one, is stuck, open?? closed??, and sending the wrong message to the ECU and thus the continung difficulties with the cold start.
Seeking assistance and advice. Thanks.

Brian
 

RoverChic

Well-known member
Apr 19, 2004
1,446
0
den Haag
Brian: I know that Brett in SA has been getting the same code on his 1995 D1. Maybe he will see this and post what solution he had to rectify the problem. I am not sure if you have replaced the ECTS (or maybe what is referred to as the thermistor) or the FTS if you have those sensors but they can contribute to no start issues. Also how are your cats?

You can test the ECTS with an OHMS reader. I would test it cold then test it hot. Here is the chart to follow for your ready review.
 

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B

BrettinSanAntonio

Guest
Code 14 and sensor

Brian, did you replace the water temp sensor or the fuel temp sensor? After I replace the temp sensor on the fuel rail, the code went away and hasn?t yet returned. If feel pretty secure in calling it ?fixed?.

Brett Naquin
San Antonio, Texas

1995 Disco
1995 Rangie Classic SWB
 
M

Makwa

Guest
Disco 95 Starting Problems and Code 14

Thanks. I will try replacing them. Were you having starting problems at the same time??
 

alex3324

Well-known member
Oct 19, 2004
510
0
Valhalla I am coming home!
Fuel Pressure Regulator?

A little off topic here because this fix won't clear your code 14. However, if the diaphragm in the fuel pressure regulator is leaking, fuel could leak past it and into your intake after engine shutdown, causing two things: a very rich air/fuel mix the next morning when you go to start it; and what seems like an extended crank time because the fuel pump is having to re-prime that pressure lost when the FP regulator leaked.

This was exactly the fix for my cold-start problem on my BMW 750. In that case, because the motor has two seperate ECUs (one for each bank of six cylinders) I replaced both regulators and never a cold start problem again had I.
 

Lino

Well-known member
Nov 19, 2004
46
0
Hi guys,

Here in Canada it gets pretty cold and i have had long cranking time since i have owned it. I checked on this site rgularly but never really got a confirmed fix. I don't want replace parts and guess. Has anyone got a confrm fix for that??

Then about a year ago i had trouble starting in cold weather, I replaced the sensor on the fuel rail and the coolant sensor and it still seems to have a hard time in the morning. With the cold weather approaching fast i want to fix it. Anyone got a fix for this.

Thanks
Lino
1995 Disco
Montreal, Canada
 
M

Makwa

Guest
Disco Problems

I guess that there are so many things that can cause these problems that there is not one definitive answer. I am working on a process of elimination. Expensive yes - my wife gets pissed when the Mastercard bill comes in. I am trying the least expensive stuff working towards the more expensive. With all of the new parts, once the Disco starts it runs really, really well. Hopefully it will continue that way and I won't have to replace them again!!
I will keep you apprised of my progress and eventual solution.
I am really hoping that my problem is not an mass air flow - really expensive.

BTW - I am in Ottawa. Is there a LR club in Montreal?? Formal or informal?? There is a club here but it is not as active as I would like. Hopefully after the new executive comes in we will have more LR off road activites. Look at OVLR.org. I can let you know when we have any activites and see if you can come up for the day - or weekend - we can find you accomomdation so there would not be any cost for you in that department. Also in early June the club has a birthday party at Silver Lake, Ontario. Are you familiar with it??
 

Lino

Well-known member
Nov 19, 2004
46
0
No there is know club here. I get together with a few friends once or twice a year, and thats about all.
I would like to come up in June, keep me posted. I will leave you my e-mail at the end of the message.

With respect to the starting i am pretty sure it is not the sensor on the rails nor the coolant sensor.

I could almost divide the problem in two. The long cranking time on the first start of the day and cold starts. When i got mine 5 years ago it always started but had the long cranking time and God help you if you let go of the starter, it would flood somtimes. The cold starting started last year and this is when i started to change the sensors. the coolant one is the last one i changed a week ago. It was already starting to have problems. I will let you know hoew it goes later this week. it should go to -7. I really wish somone figures it out its about the only thing that pisses me off about the truck.

My wife wants me to get rid of it but she changes her mind quick. Price of a new car$$$$

Thanks
Lino
lino.palumbo@videotron.ca
 

Lino

Well-known member
Nov 19, 2004
46
0
hi all,

i wanted to keep this thread going just in case somone knows why its so hard to start in cold weather.
Thanks
Lino
 

macklow

Well-known member
May 3, 2004
398
0
Las Vegas, NV
cold starting

I have a '95 (190K miles) that also is difficult to start when cold (ambient temp below freezing).

I've found that my particular disco is very very sensitive to the condition of the cap and rotor.

I've had the disco crank and crank with no results... then pop the hood, look at the cap and rotor, notice a bit of carbon on the rotor, scrape it on some rocks to clean it off, then put everything together and have the truck start right up.

So now I always have a new (genuine LR) cap and rotor stashed away in the truck for the cold days when the disco just needs that exact resistance/gap/whatever that a brand-new cap-n-rotor deliver.

The timing might have something to do with it as well, I have mine advanced a bit and run only the lowest octane gas I can find.
 
Oct 27, 2004
3,000
4
Hard start 14CUX under 20F

93-95 Classic and discovery has a update "Cold Start" kit to adress flooding under 20 degrees F.

The Service bulletin number is 19/13/96/US

THis is for pre Gems cars (95-back)


Let me sum up the fix.

1. Change the oil to 5-30

2. Replace the starter with the updated unit (Land Rover Part Number ERR6087K)

3. Replace Battery Cables with thicker units (Land Rover Part Number PRC5235K-Neg and AMR4803K- Potive and the Starter to ground cable number AMR1057K)

4. Replace PROM with part number PRM3652.

5. Reaplce Spade type terminals at coil with crimp on eyelet type.

6. Set base idle correctly.



This is a good fix, I have done many at the dealer.

Also, the PROM for the 4.2 is PRM3653.
 
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M

Makwa

Guest
95 Disco Starting Problems

I have replaced the rotor and cap and am quite surprised by the wiggle room on the OEM cap. Last I remember caps used to fit very tight and snug. I thought I had been sent the wrong cap or I was missing an O ring or seal. But no it is just a little loose.
Had me a bit perplexed because if one was doing any wading this could present a problem. I thiught that if the original intention in the design was for rugged use then they would have made it impervious as possible. But not so!! I am advised that die-electric (SP??) grease is the way to go. Messy but it willnot leak.

Thanks for the advice on the technical bulletin. Definitely will be doing that.

Brian
 
Oct 27, 2004
3,000
4
It works

When Discovery first came out(94-95) I was a dealer tech in Wisconsin.

If it got below freezing, We knew that there would be a bunch of towed in Discos. All we could do is replace the plugs and change the oil before Rover figured it out.

The bulletin works. After we retrofitted those Rovers, they worked fine.

The reason for the 5-30 and the new starter and cables is that with 10-30(Or higher), the start just didnt turn fast enough for the car to relize it was being started.

The starter I listed REALLY spins it fast. And, it takes a bunch of current, hense the better cables.

The Prom before the one I listed Made it too rich on really cold starts, the New one updates that nicely.

My friend bought one from Florida a few years ago, Here in St Louis, the first time the temp went below freezing.....It wouldnt start. So, the ones in lower climates may not have the package......

Of course, when I was done with it, it started GREAT!!! :)
 

Lino

Well-known member
Nov 19, 2004
46
0
Thanks for the update I heard of this bulletin. Excuse my ignorance but wahat is a PROM

Lino
 
M

Makwa

Guest
95Disco Starting Problem

More and new symptoms have cropped up in the last couple of days. When cranking and trying to start the engine sputters - not stutters. Stuttering being complete ignition but faltering acceleration. The engine now sputters, incomplete ignition in the firing, and ocassionally there will be a popping sound and smoke will come out of the air breather - very rich odour to it. After a while of cranking and sputtering the firing will catch and the engine will start. The engine runs fine and idles fine for the rest of the trip.
Also last night from a stop light I had the same sputtering when trying to accelerate from the green light. After a a few pumps on the accelerator the firing caught and and I accelerated away from the light.
?????????

Brian

Oh yes - it was very wet yesterday.
 

EMBIBB

Well-known member
Sep 6, 2004
252
2
59
San Antonio,Texas
sputtering...

Brian, your symptoms sound like a timing issue. Throw a light on it and check... the distributor gremlin may have visited you

eddie
 

RoverChic

Well-known member
Apr 19, 2004
1,446
0
den Haag
Brian: Did you mention the spark plugs? They could be defective or the gaps incorrect, maybe retarded ignition as well, if it has been wet then I am leaning more towards maybe an electrical problem..Happens when cold or wet possible intermittent electrical issue. I had several no start issues with my 1998 which have since been rectified and it was similar to yours. Maybe try the fuel filter in addition to the plugs. Try cleaning the MAFS as well. Good Luck.
 
Oct 27, 2004
3,000
4
A PROM stands for Programmable Read on Memory....
It's the chip inyour ECM that controlls the show.


OPen your ecm, and you'll find a green or blue plastic cover that says Lucas on your circuit board.
The PROM to be changed is under that cover.
ALSO.

Not, on one side of your chip is a half moon shape thing.....THis is for referance so you but in in correctly.

If you DONT....No Biggie(Ask how I know. :))

THe car will not turn on the Check engine light on bulb check(Iginition 2)

If it happens, just take it out and switch it around.
 

Lino

Well-known member
Nov 19, 2004
46
0
Where do you get a PROM?
How much?
How can you be sure its acting up? How do i know its bad?

I called RoversNorth and they said i should look at the pick up air gap in the distributer, it should be at .10.

I told the him i changed plugs, wires, rotor, cap, fuel rail sensor, coolant sensor and threw in a new battery wich seemed to improve the start(faster spinning of the starter).

Thanks
Lino
 
R

Rossie

Guest
I had the same issue two years ago on a 95 Disco. What has happened is the fuel rail has corroded and the debris is now stuck in the fuel injectors. Fix is to replace rail and either replace the injectors - I did - or have them cleaned.

Rossie