Mar Armed Marshals??

bigred · Sep 10, 2004

It seems, from the freelanderliving forum, that most of the trail marshals at MAR will be driving freelanders, and that some of them would like to be armed so that they get the respect that they are entitled to as marshals... WTF??

Posted - 08/03/2004 : 19:53:27
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Domke said he's in (he's bringing his Disco, too, not riding along again as I initially thought)... He requested that some sort of literature, mandate, something, be circulated to particpants letting them know what the marshals are there for.

I think that's a great idea... Give us a mandate so maybe people will listen.

ducati (aka fireball)
'02 Freelander HSE (hers)
'03 Disco 4.6 S (his, mostly)
3 Dogs in the back

pksgtw2k
SE

USA
305 Posts Posted - 08/03/2004 : 20:02:41
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Steve, I'm in, I sent you an e-mail.

Phil
03 Epsom Green
DAP HD A-Frame w/winch
LIFTED

steve
Freelander Addict

USA
9714 Posts Posted - 08/03/2004 : 20:16:03
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There will be a notice as to the Trail Marshal Charter.
Failure to comply with Trail Marshals can result in expulsion from the event, depending on circumstances.

2002 Project Freelander
1995 Discovery
1974 MGB/GT ITB Race car
Coming soon- 76 Mini Cooper S... no, not a frigging ugly BMW Mini

deeker
HSE

Canada
911 Posts Posted - 08/04/2004 : 06:34:13
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Nate could bring along his new toys to help the troublesome ones comply. That could get scary.

a good idea to have a charter or something. Let everyone know the marshals are there for good, not evil.

Silver '02 SE
Home-made front bar

Edited by - deeker on 08/04/2004 06:35:32

ducati
Moderator

2229 Posts Posted - 08/04/2004 : 07:31:07
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That didn't go over too well last year. Some people are afraid of firearms, and react stupidly to them.

ducati (aka fireball)
'02 Freelander HSE (hers)
'03 Disco 4.6 S (his, mostly)
3 Dogs in the back

steve
Freelander Addict

USA
9714 Posts Posted - 08/04/2004 : 09:11:46
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Some liberal had a real problem with it- I don't care though.

2002 Project Freelander
1995 Discovery
1974 MGB/GT ITB Race car
Coming soon- 76 Mini Cooper S... no, not a frigging ugly BMW Mini

Steve · Sep 10, 2004

If I recall from the discussions last year, the biggest gripes were not that they (they being Steve Young) were armed but the visibility of it was unsettling. Someone even mentioned that a weapon was left in plain view on the passenger seat unsecured. These are the things that would bother me as I bring children along to MAR.

garrett · Sep 10, 2004

i am sure i will get blasted, but steve young is a tool. really all there is to say about that. MAR needs to be patroled by all means. having some 500 people and 300+ vehicles there are going to be issues. but to have some wanna be eagle scout with a freeland freely and opening showing a weapon is beyond reasonable. i remember him last year. he never gave me an issue to really complain, as i did the same, but be was an annoyance.

i am not against guns by any means at all, but to keep one in plain view it rather stupid. if you are amoung an entire group of adults that is one thing, but MAR is a family event. if you have one keep it to yourself and out of view. locked away at least.

not like anyone is going to get THAT out of hand. if someone or a group is acting dangerously i am sure the MAR officials can handle it without steve young and his pretty freelander with about every bell and whistle on it.

marshalls should be there to HELP people that are unfamiliar to off roading and these events. they should not be there to harass and threaten people. these are to be fun events where we get together and put faces to names, etc.

we don't need any more macho driven rednecks. they do enough damage on their own. MAR has always been fun for me for the last 4 years. i don't want steve or any other gun toting newbie idiot to change that for me or the rest of us that look forward to this event every year.

peace

Mongo · Sep 10, 2004

I'm with Garrett on this, what's the need for marshall's to carry a firearm at a event like this? Security's not an issue, and public safety should be handled by professionals. I would hope that there's not any element at this event where firearms would be needed to control them. Seems a couple boys are getting a little GUNG HO. Lighten guys, it's a bunch of 4x4's, not a Hells Angels meeting. I kinda like the statement about "getting the respect...blah,blah,blah." The respect thats needed has to come from the organizers in the form of control and access of the trails. I think it needs to be made very clear when you register that the Marshalls are right you are wrong. Act like a bonehead, and you get the boot. If I remember correctly, it's kinda blurred from having to much fun, that there isn't a need for ARMED marshalls...Just a way of controlling and keeping the vehicles moving along the trails. MAR is a awesome event and the organizers do a great job, and I would think that they are working on all the issues with a event like this, but leave the weapons secured, and out of sight!

Cheers
Frank

Kyle · Sep 10, 2004

Is this accurate ? I got a mail asking to delete this thread. If its inaccurate I will be more then happy to but I am kinda wondering for my own knowledge. There are dudes with guns on the trails and they call themselves "Marshals" ????????????? And they need respect ????????????? So they need heat ????????????????

Someone please clarify.................. YOu know I am slow so put it in simple words so I can understand..

Kyle

bigred · Sep 10, 2004

Why would you be asked to delete this thread??

Kyle · Sep 10, 2004

Now that aint an answer is it ? Every year more and more strange shit surrounds the MAR. Personally I have no freaking idea why its draws the attention it does with this shit going on. So I asked the question above.....

Kyle

Crazy Fish · Sep 10, 2004

Correct me IF I am wrong.

I don't think ROAV asked the Marshalls to have guns, nor is it any sort of requirement.

I THINK this is all about someone or a few, having guns there, being a Marshall and making everyone know that they had a gun, as a Marshall.

Does ROAV actually hire someone for 'security' or has someone taken it upon themselves to do it?

Being a Marshall, in my book, does not mean being you are security.

Steve · Sep 10, 2004

The fact that "someone" wishes the thread deleted is yet another example of the problems associated with this topic. If people are going to attend, they have a right to know about past issues as well as the fact that there are going to be even more people packing this year. It is a family event and we as parents deserve to know this. It has nothing to do with "reacting stupidly" or "Some liberal had a real problem with it- I don't care though.". Its about good parenting.

Kyle · Sep 10, 2004

Sean , what was that double speak ? If they are appointed as Marshalls then whoever is putting on the event apointed them as such. Therefore , they should probably know what the marshals they apointed are doing ? Dont you think ?

rmuller · Sep 10, 2004

For some reason when I think of the term "Marshall" in this sense, it reminds me of when my grandfather got asked to be a marshall at a golfing tournament.. I think if people are there to be marshalls they are just there to basically help people out and tell people if perhaps they are wheeling where they shouldn't be.. i dont think there should be any need for security forces... if someone does cause a problem, call the police.

Steve · Sep 10, 2004

Amen.

Crazy Fish · Sep 10, 2004

Sorry, trying to separate being a Marshall and having a gun.

I also think, in my opinion, that being a Marshall means helping people along, traffic control, moron on the trail control.

So, I was asking if a Marshall by definition, at this event, is also security.

Added: Of course they asked the Marshalls to be Marshalls, I'm asking what official duties do they have. Guidelines if you will.

syoung · Sep 10, 2004

Here's the deal-

There was never an unattended weapon left on the seat at a previous MAR- unless it belonged to an attendee and I never heard about it.

Yes, I carry a sidearm quite often and am licensed to do so. Yes, I had it at MAR and concealed except for about 45 minutes after my 6 year oldd covered my jacket with soda. The only safe place for the weapon was with me, so I carried it.

The thread copied here earlier was out of context and was more of a joke among friends- not MAR policy. I know MAR policy because I help create is as an elected member of the Board of Directors of ROAV.

Yes, many of the Marshals at the event have Freelanders- about half of them. The other half are Discos and D90's. All of them have medical training- that is the main reason we have Trail Marshals- to spread out readily visible 'helpers' who also have the job of watching out for tools doing stupid things.

If you do something like get drunk and speed through campsites, yes, the Marshals will have you thrown out. They'll also do whatever they can to save your life if you need it too.

PS_ if you have a problem with the people volunteering at the event driving Freelanders, then maybe YOU should volunteer your time. I posted a request for volunteers here and only one person responded.

bri · Sep 10, 2004

Certainly if Marshals are supposed to be helping with traffic, spotting and helping with recovery, I would think it would be dangerous to be carrying a loaded weapon. If you need security in the form of an armed official they should be obvious, wearing a badge and true dedicated security specialist. Has MAR really gotten that out of hand before? That a Marshal needs to have a weapon? I would also think it would just be wise to have participants NOT bring guns, but I am sure that will get some knickers in a twist.

Steve · Sep 10, 2004

I don't see where Freelanders had anything to do with it. Even with your jacket on, it was quite obvious.

Secondly, the unattended weapon was brought up on these forums after last year's events. I did not see it but I think I remember with clarity the jist of the issue.

The part of this that you are failing to grasp is "why on your person?". Do you think you will be compromising security by having it in a handgun safe inside your vehicle? Or is it that you think you are going to get into situation where you are going to have to draw faster than the multitude of gunslingers on the wild-wild power line trail?

Kyle · Sep 10, 2004

I can apreciate the fact that brandishing a gun might make up for driving a freelander for some ..

But something is alllllllllllllllllllll fucked up if the "MArshals" want to carry during their stint at MAR. The whole "Week end warrior" thing pops right into my head. Now my question is still not getting answered. Are the "MArshals" packing or not ? If they are packing and Roav did apoint them then ROAV is responsible for their actions. YOU for certain Steve as you just said that you are an elected official of the board. Bri brings up a point as well , its making me laugh already and it hasnt happened yet. Reminds me of this dude that showed up on one of our trips with a giant ass Rambo knife hanging off his side. Seems to me that ROAV wouldnt want a single person there with a side arm , especially if they are tied to them in any way. As far as the respect thing. That would litterally crack me the fuck up (As did the guy with the Rambo knife) and I would instantly lose any respect that I might have (Highly doubtfull) for the guy in the "Marshall" jacket....

Kyle

Steve · Sep 10, 2004

As a former police officer and member of a certain elite military group, I feel that I can say this without rebuke. Anyone who needs to show a weapon to gain respect, deserves none.

Kyle · Sep 10, 2004

Steve I just said that exact same thing in an Email to the guy that wanted me to delete this.

Kyle

syoung · Sep 10, 2004

The whole issue is getting skewed... as a former police officer, police trainer and former member of an elite military group with combat experience myself, I agree what that last statement. The problem is that NOBODY is asserting that Marshals will carry firearms. *I* carried one last year and *none* of the Marshals have been asked to carry.
The issue about getting respect comes from last year when ROAV did not have a policy or even a notice to participants that explained what a Trail Marshal is. When one of the Marshals approached someone about tossing beer bottles in the woods, all he got back was an "F.U." That will not be the case this year because there will be a notice to participants that explained what a Trail Marshal is- and messing with them could be grounds for being invited to leave the event.

Mar Armed Marshals??

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