Help with Transmission??

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DiscoveringTheDisco

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Hello all...glad to be a part. This will be my very first post but I have been reading/enjoying all the useful information. Let me jump right into the problem with my Disco. I have a '95 Disco I with +/- 139,000 miles that has been giving me transmission problems...from all that I've read I'm sure that comes as a complete shock. Initially, the cooler lines were leaking...changed them out w/new. After replacing the lines it seems that the transmission cooler decided it was going to leak...I guess the corroded end was happy that the lines were leaking and losing pressure so it didn't have to deal with it! Replaced cooler w/new. Filled the ****** back up to correct level and everything seemed to be ok. Also, changed out power steering reservoir and all lines since they were all leaking too. At this point I was pretty damn proud of myself and took my truck for a long test drive...about 25 minutes into the drive the Transmission Overtemp light comes on and stays on until I get home. The light has only come on once before when towing. There were/are no noticeable noises, slips or other nonsense from the transmission or transfer case. I shut the engine off and turned the key back to ACC and the A/C fan (2 fan assembly in front of the radiator) came on/off repeatedly until the Transmission Overtemp light went out. Started the engine again and about 10 minutes later the light was on again...engine off, ACC on; fans on/off until light goes out. The cooler lines and gear selector do get awefully hot (almost to hot to touch) but I don't have a way of measuring the exact temp...sorry. From reading other threads, I have seen the transmission switch/sensor(s) mentioned...I don't think this is my problem since 1) it is the cooler lines that get hot and only the ATF runs through them so the TC sensor should be ok and 2) the light waits for 25 minutes to come on and goes out when the sensor is cool...sounds to me like it's working the way it should. I don't know the past service history for the transmission and will not make any assumptions. I have owned the truck since +/- 130,000 miles and haven't changed the trans fluid or filter but that is the project for tomorrow morning. I guess my question is - could a dirty filter actually be dirty enough to restrict flow that drastically? Excuse my ignorance but I'm truly surprised by that. Anyways, I am changing the filter and fluid (same old ATF - I'm not so sure I'll benefit from synthetic) tomorrow and hope this will solve all my overheating - will post updates. Please please chime in with any helpful information/advice/other. Thanks for taking the time to read and hopefully respond.
 
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DiscoveringTheDisco

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Anybody???

Wow, 41 views and not a single reply??? Thanks for all the help.
 

curtis

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Apr 20, 2004
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Salt Lake City, UT
First off, I would not exactly expect a reply like someone owes you something. I almost didn't reply after reading your last post, but I will step above that for now.

That being said, I am not so sure I have anything useful to offer excetpt that, yes, it probably is your filter. The trans filter is a little 3"x4" box with a sump pickup on it. IIRC Fluid is fed from the sump into the filter and directly into the control body, then through the transmission and back to the pump just behind the torque converter. Once the fluid exit s the TC it if fed to the cooling lines and circulates back to the sump to do it all again. If the filter is blocked I am guessing that this could cause excess pressure in the lines by the sump being too full. I am just guessing at this, but either way, changing the filter is a pain in the ass, but still worth it.

On another note, if you have 139K on the rig and if the fluid is brown rather than red - don't change it. Your trans will go quickly. If you have to change the filter and the fluid is brown, reuse the fluid you took out. Just make sure to drain it into a super-clean container and keep all dirt out.
 

rmarti

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Mar 11, 2005
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Sorry but no suggestions here, but DAMN...easy tuff guy. Maybe if you didn't make your post so damn long and get to the point some people might've read the whole thing.

Oh, and glad to have you aboard ;)
 

Rocky

Well-known member
Apr 23, 2004
2,178
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Red Sox Nation
DiscoveringTheDisco said:
Disco I with +/- 139,000 miles that has been giving me transmission problems
Initially, the cooler lines were leaking...changed them out w/new.
Replaced cooler w/new. Filled the ****** back up to correct level and everything seemed to be ok.
about 25 minutes into the drive the Transmission Overtemp light comes on and stays on until I get home. The light has only come on once before when towing. There were/are no noticeable noises, slips or other nonsense from the transmission or transfer case.

, I have seen the transmission switch/sensor(s) mentioned...

I have owned the truck since +/- 130,000 miles and haven't changed the trans fluid or filter but that is the project for tomorrow morning. I guess my question is - could a dirty filter actually be dirty enough to restrict flow that drastically? .

Dang took me ten mins to distill the question down to basic elements.
FWIW I have a 95 D1 with 139k to. ZF trannies can get cranky with fluid changes. Failing coolant lines etc probably dropped some crud into the fluid, and so doing a fluid/filter change is a good idea.Good luck with that transmission crossmember. I have a transmission sensor replacement handy to. otherwise sounds pretty good. Don't be surprised if the transmission gets locked in neutral or in gear immediately after you've done this fluid/filter change. It happens but clears up after a day or so of driving.
FWIW recommended shop is www.citysidegarage.com but they are a ways from you. You might almost do better going to BWO overland in Kittery
 

MUSKYMAN

Well-known member
Apr 19, 2004
8,277
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OverBarrington IL
crossmember is a snap...put a manual sissors jack right next to it and crank it up till the crossmember falls right out...snap done!

yes ZF's are not fans of fluid changes, but if the fluid is brown the trans wont be long for this world as it is.


reading your very long wordy post makes me wonder if the fluid has ever been changed. I once bought a MB with a zf 4hp22 that had not even had one service stamp in the book. after a week of ownership it started doing the same thing yours is...needed a new box :(

I just replaced the trans in my 94 D1....surprize surprize...I have 139k on the ticker.

welcome to the board...sorry to say you are looking at a expensive fix that has no short cuts
 
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DiscoveringTheDisco

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Thanks to all, and to all a good night

Kick ass, I got mail!!! First off, the updates (I'll try not to be so "wordy" this time - just making sure everyone knows the ENTIRE problem and understands what has already been done so they don't give time-wasting, mine and theirs, advice)...changed out the filter and fluid on Tuesday morning, the fluid was not that brown, still reddish in color. Yes, the breakdown of everything in order to get to the filter is a massive pain in the ass but after reading other posts and tech articles I knew what I was getting myself into...still took a good part of a day.

MUSKYMAN - the crossmember IS a snap...I used the trusty old LR bottle jack and a length of 2x4...worked beautifully!

Chris_Browne - the fluid change went ok, no locking up, but I also dumped in a bottle of Lucas Transmission Fix in place of one quart for good measure...damn that stuff is thick! Also, I did make the drive out to Cityside Garage just after I bought the truck when I lived in Attleboro...nice place, Alan looked it over for me (my first LR), reset the SRS and ABS lights and gave some very useful advice. Never been up to BWO but I was thinking about stopping by, or possibly Rover's North for some rust work. Have you been to either one?

rmarti - thanks for the warm welcome...happy to be here!

And last but not least, my dear friend curtis - I don't feel anyone owes me anything...we are all here to help eachother out, no? That's why I joined up at least. I'm a new LR owner who can turn a wrench and I did my research before consulting the veterans on this board so I wouldn't come across like a complete ass. On top of that, I was only looking for helpful words of encouragement since I was looking at a cumbersome repair job to be done all by my lonesome. If you don't want to offer your advice, so be it...be nasty...I'm sure I'll get along w/o it. I made the initial post, no replies...posted the second one, 4 replies right off the bat...you do the math.

Ok, so this is turning out to be another long winded one so I'll get to the point. I changed the filter and fluid w/new plus added a quart of Lucas...put everything back together, the Y-pipe reassembly being the biggest pain even with the new studs and started her up. The new Y-pipe gaskets made a hell of a racket (???) and smoked up a bit but settled down eventually. All seems to be well...made a 3.5 hour round trip today with nothing to report. I'm happy...until next time...Jon
 

curtis

Well-known member
Apr 20, 2004
1,545
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Salt Lake City, UT
MUSKYMAN said:
well...you could most likely learn a few lessons from Curtis, because he has walked the road of a bad ZF :)

Thanks for speaking up Thom.

As far as "Discovering the Disco", it seems like you pretty much followed what I suggested to a tee and it worked out for you. Next time you post for info I will just keep my mouth shut and let your non-answered post drift off into the wilderness. You are a sharp reminder on why I don't try to help on this board much anymore.

Good luck and I hope a planetary spins a sun gear on you.
 
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DiscoveringTheDisco

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I'm gonna eat some worms.

curtis said:
Thanks for speaking up Thom.

As far as "Discovering the Disco", it seems like you pretty much followed what I suggested to a tee and it worked out for you.
You are a sharp reminder on why I don't try to help on this board much anymore.

curtis said:
First off, I would not exactly expect a reply like someone owes you something. I almost didn't reply after reading your last post, but I will step above that for now.

Well...actually...no.

I had the work done before I even read your posting. It would have been nice to have before starting though. I do thank you for your time pressing keys and purging the mind for my benefit.

As far as helping on this board goes, I guess you consider blasting a new member who did nothing to you for no apparent reason when he is only looking for timely well versed advice on diagnosing a problem, "helping", King curtis? Maybe you could stop by later and kick me in the jimmy a few times while drilling me on LR knowledge. I'm not entirely sure where all this pent up hostility boils from as I don't know you from a hole in the wall but kindly direct it elsewhere.

If MUSKYMAN is correct and you are the ZF "Golden Child" then I request that you help me walk the path of the chosen one. I merely made a second posting (containing not an inkling of hostile text) in order to move my thread to the top of the food chain and hopefully get some love...and it worked, what's the big deal?

Don't run off and pout...won't you be my neighbor?
 

curtis

Well-known member
Apr 20, 2004
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Salt Lake City, UT
You serve as a prime example of the mentality of todays LR owner who goes out and buys 130,000 mile junk. I am sure your Rover will look good beside your double-wide when that trans goes - and it will. :D

Now why do I stoop to such rudeness? Well, lets see: You make a post that no one in their right mind can read all the way through. (Believe it or not, you can actually break a post up using a little known grammatical feature called a paragraph.) No one answers, yet after you throw your little "Thanks for all the help." hissy I take pity on you and try to help out. Well, that obviously did not work out so well.

There is no hiding the fact I am an ass. I will freely admit it. The funny thing is that while you keep playing the "I'm new!" card, you have truly shown your colors in your first few posts. I give you a shelf-life of about three months before you end up in the 'banned bin'. :cool:
 
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studio54

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academic curiosity

Ok I don?t have this problem so I am asking for academic reasons:

curtis said:
On another note, if you have 139K on the rig and if the fluid is brown rather than red - don't change it. Your trans will go quickly. If you have to change the filter and the fluid is brown, reuse the fluid you took out. Just make sure to drain it into a super-clean container and keep all dirt out.

Why?????

I know zf?s don?t like synthetic and that they generally play up for a short time after oil change, but why not change the oil?

While we are on the subject of tran oil what are the problems associated with over filling a zf (or any AT for that matter). Manuals always seem to say ?DO NOT OVER FILL? Is it really worth shouting about? Again academic curiosity, its not something I have ever questioned

It's only a little hijack sorry

Ps, Curtis, really like the running man!
 

MUSKYMAN

Well-known member
Apr 19, 2004
8,277
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OverBarrington IL
I asked this question of a contact I have at ZF and was told that there are a number of reasons. first being when you drain the fluid the pan empties but the torque coverter does not and that causes different friction levels at different clutches at start up. this will cause hard shifting that will over load the friction surfaces and cause failure.

they recommend that fluid be changed often to prevent burned fluid. once the fluid has burned or degraded there is no way to prevent a trans failure within a short period of time. they also do not reccomend flushing a trans that has started to have clutch failure because the broken down clutch material will be forced into areas that can cause plugging.

but remember that they sell the things and dont expect anyone to try and stretch extra use out of a old unit.

I know of a number of people that flush there ZF's all the time without any problems. so I guess it goes to if the fluid has been allowed to get bad before you start doing regular preventative maintainence.

Morel: if a trans is not serviced throughout its life, all the flushes and changes you throw at it wont fix the problems that have come to be as a lack of service in the past.
 

marc olivares

Well-known member
Apr 20, 2004
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WOW! Jonathan, time to step back and take a deep breath....

let me start by welcoming you to Discoweb!

as a new person to this board, you will fine that your time here will be best spent searching through the archives. once you have done that, you may realize a few things.

first of all, the guys that you seem to be so aggressive w/ have been there an awfully long time. they both have been there and done that.
second, you may find an answer to your related problem in a previous post. if an answer can not be found, we all encourage you to post up a question. but please remember, this forum owes you nothing, by jumping to the offensive on your second post diminishes our eagerness to help you.

your transmission to me sounds worn out, so take your lumps like a man and start saving for a new/rebuilt one. then, once the new one is in, you have 2 options, never service it, or service it often. but bear in mind, experience taught me that servicing a transmission w/ 139K is a waste of money and will quickly become the beginning of the end of your transmission.
 

MUSKYMAN

Well-known member
Apr 19, 2004
8,277
0
OverBarrington IL
marc olivares said:
your transmission to me sounds worn out, so take your lumps like a man and start saving for a new/rebuilt one. then, once the new one is in, you have 2 options, never service it, or service it often. but bear in mind, experience taught me that servicing a transmission w/ 139K is a waste of money and will quickly become the beginning of the end of your transmission.


didnt you intend to say "once the new one is in correctly"

:D
 

curtis

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Apr 20, 2004
1,545
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Salt Lake City, UT
MUSKYMAN said:
didnt you intend to say "once the new one is in correctly"

:D

LOL. We never had any trouble getting them in correctly. It was properly pre-lubing the copper surface bearing on the pump with vaseline before putting on the torque converter. Damn that was a hard lesson. We got about ten blocks from my house before it died. When we pulled it back out and disassembled it the pump was frozen with a bunch of melted copper. Hard way to learn that the pump runs dry until the fluid makes its way there :D

FWIW - I am running Amsoil synthetic in there thanks to Marc and it is now nearly a year and runs great. The rig has been flawlessly reliable.

Uh-oh. I think I just jinxed myself :rolleyes:
 

MUSKYMAN

Well-known member
Apr 19, 2004
8,277
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OverBarrington IL
Curtis

dont feel bad..i have changed them in my BMW and in a number of MB's....still I broke off the drive pins in my rover first time I did mine :(

the good news is I got to lay on my back and do it again, I cut about 4 hours off the job the second time....but thats just because I did the pump swap under the truck :cool:

Thom
 

curtis

Well-known member
Apr 20, 2004
1,545
0
Salt Lake City, UT
Are you talkin' about the tabs on the pump gear? If so, thats exactly what shredded on mine. I just never thought to lube those up with a heavy grease my first time. And I built that f****r myself so it may have been doomed anyway.

Thats pretty slick replacing the pump while in the truck. I never thought to do it that way, but it sure seems possible. You didn't have any trouble with copper in the trans?

BTW - a reman pump assembly was $385 for me. I took your advive and called up Phoenix Reman and I think I paid about $1100 for a complete transmission which included a rebuilt converter. The paint on it looked like shit, but I haven't been under there recently anyway :D