Detroit with VC

[ccollins]

Anybody on here running a rear detroit locker with the standard VC TC ? I have a 94RRC and I'm looking at locker options. I'm wondering how well this setup works. Thanks

[landrovered]

Honestly I would pull the BW and replace it with an LT230. It made a HUGE difference in the wheeling capability of my truck. While I am putting a Detroit in the rear of my truck because my center pin on my rear diff is failing, I would suggest that you do the Tcase first and the locker second.

The RRC with an LT230 and open diffs is as capable as a BW with a rear locker. If you have both then you are really getting somewhere.

Chad, I didn't realize it was you till after I wrote the above. I decided to go with the Detroit and Rovertracks rear axles. Denny has ARB's front and rear with the BW and his front axles does not get the power that you would expect. He had a little trouble with the mud hole on cneter trail and I motored right through with the LT230.

[ccollins]

Thanks for the input Scott. That adds a little more to consider. What made you decide to go with a Detroit?

[landrovered]

Cost mostly, I can get the detroit and uprated axles for the same as the ARB, plus there are no other systems to have to depend on, you know the more complicated a system is the more likely it is to fail due to some insignificant detail like a leaky o-ring or bad compressor.

[flyfisher11]

Chad,

Here you go! Great price too.

http://www.discoweb.org/forums/showthread.php?t=52337

[JSQ]

I'm wondering how well this setup works.

Terribly.

You're going to need the LT-230 to get anything out of the detroit.

And even if you're into sub-standard locker performance, the addition of the detroit will smoke your VC in a hurry on the trail.

[luvs2getmuddy]

Terribly.

You're going to need the LT-230 to get anything out of the detroit.

And even if you're into sub-standard locker performance, the addition of the detroit will smoke your VC in a hurry on the trail.

I disagree.
I have a BW and a rear locker and my truck performs flawlessly.

[JSQ]

I disagree.
I have a BW and a rear locker and my truck performs flawlessly.

It performs flawlessly?
Where?
On the street?
Or on some trail where you never needed a locker in the first place?

What exactly do you think is going on inside your BW with an open front and a locked up rear?

[luvs2getmuddy]

It performs flawlessly?
Where?
On the street?
Or on some trail where you never needed a locker in the first place?

What exactly do you think is going on inside your BW with an open front and a locked up rear?

I am not going to start a fight with you over who is the more hardcore wheeler. I will, however say, that I do wheel my truck HEAVILY(wet/rock climbs/mud holes, etc), and believe me, that locker came into play more than once.

Do enlighten me.

[simon]

Same here, almost 5 years with VC/Detroit rear - ARB front.
NO problems so far, as soon as the VC takes a dump I will replace with the LT-230.

Not a lot of crazy ass rock climbing stuff here in south Florida, lots of mud, sand, stuff like that..

and I tow a +/- 5,000 Lbs trailer/boat combo.

Simon.

[landrovered]

As I mentioned above, while wheeling behind my buddy who has ARBs front and rear with a BW, his front axle will turn at one speed and his rear at another, I have witnessed this on two occassions both involving mud, back tires in the hole front out of the hole, he had trouble getting out of the hole and had to back up several times. Had they been locked with a LT230 this would not have occured. I had open diffs and a locked CDL and had no trouble.

[JSQ]

I disagree.
I have a BW and a rear locker and my truck performs flawlessly.

I am not going to start a fight with you over who is the more hardcore wheeler. I will, however say, that I do wheel my truck HEAVILY(wet/rock climbs/mud holes, etc), and believe me, that locker came into play more than once.

Do enlighten me.

It's enlightenment that luvs2getmuddy is seeking?

Well then I can be of assistance.

We will try to illuminate the oh-so-complicated principles behind running an open diff and a locker on either side of a viscous coupling, but first let's see if we can shed some light on luvs2getmuddy's experience and perspective.

Let's look at luvs2getmuddy's background:
-He's a public servant in the Candian governemnt with the lofty aspiration of one day becoming "some sort of supervisor" by the time he is 30. (http://www.discoweb.org/forums/showpost.php?p=408921&postcount=28)
-He loves monopoly, but no one will play with him. (http://www.discoweb.org/forums/showpost.php?p=473662&postcount=27)
-He's a jeeper that has had his beater RRC for less than two years. (http://www.discoweb.org/forums/showpost.php?p=277006&postcount=1)

Now let's look at what luvs2getmuddy's knows about modifying Land Rovers:
-He's into sweet mods like swapping a disco steering wheel into his RRC, but hasn't quite figured out how to pull it off yet. (http://www.discoweb.org/forums/showthread.php?t=31725)
-He's ready to install a shitter pipe snorkel and turn his RRC into a submarine. (http://www.discoweb.org/forums/showpost.php?p=274067&postcount=1)
-He wants to Lincoln-Locker 10 spline drivetrain. (http://www.discoweb.org/forums/showthread.php?t=44887)
-He thinks cross-drilled and slotted rotors are bad for fourwheeling. (http://www.discoweb.org/forums/showpost.php?p=303536&postcount=6)
-He painted his old beater fucking-sandglow-poseur-yellow. (http://www.discoweb.org/forums/showpost.php?p=348593&postcount=44)

Now let's look at what luvs2getmuddy knows about tech:
-He thinks the Disco1 and Disco2 have their differentials on opposite sides. (http://www.discoweb.org/forums/showpost.php?p=487261&postcount=8)
-He thinks the LT-230 is not suitable for rock crawling unless it is "upgraded". (http://www.discoweb.org/forums/showpost.php?p=510912&postcount=5)
-He can't tell the difference between a blown t-case, a blown diff, a broken axle or a CV. (http://www.discoweb.org/forums/showthread.php?t=49500)
-He can't even diagnose a bad starter without help. (http://www.discoweb.org/forums/showthread.php?t=29093)
-The last time he used the word "flawlessly" to describe how a part functioned it was when he put the fuel pump motor from an 89 Chevy Cavalier into his RRC and it wouldn't start. (http://www.discoweb.org/forums/showthread.php?t=35618)

And lastly let's look at the kind of fourwheeling that luvs2getmuddy does:
http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i151/soxja/DSC02252.jpg
http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i151/soxja/DSC02238.jpg
http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i151/soxja/DSC02215.jpg
http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i151/soxja/DSC02206.jpg
http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i151/soxja/DSC02301.jpg

Now that we know a little bit about luvs2getmuddy we can try to "enlighten" him.
Let's remind him that he is a total fucking clueless poseur who's had his truck only long enough to break it on rookie trails. He also might think about the fact that he can't possibly have had a detroit for more than about three months since in June of this year he was posting about his open diffs. He has no experience and he doesn't know shit about tech.

luvs2getmuddy needs to:
Shut the fuck up.
Sit down.
Listen.
And learn.

Then maybe he'll be able to understand that the Open/Viscous/Locker set up cannot function properly. The BW tcase acts as a limited slip between the front and rear axles and can only transfer part of the torque within its design specification. Once those parameters are exceeded disproportionately the path of least resistance is overcome and either the VC fails entirely or it simply lets torque drive only the open front diff effectively resulting in one wheel drive. Increase tire size and you only accelerate the process.

[KevinNY]

I see little Jackie is mad that someone questioned him again, Jack you are Steve Young with a nicer truck.

[jymmiejamz]

Wow, that is impressive Jack. Talk about dedication to pwning newbs.

I have front and rear ARB's that I will sell you if you want to stick with the ten spline stuff. PM me for details.

[MUSKYMAN]

I see little Jackie is mad that someone questioned him again, Jack you are Steve Young with a nicer truck.

nope I disagree

see the difference is jack actually is out doing what he talks about.

I have issues with people that post about stuff they heard or read about...but if they were out doing it, watching it ,and seeing it happen first hand then let it rip.

calling Jack a steve young is just not correct and some how puts steve young in a class he sure never deserved to be includded in:rofl:

as it applies to this post when crawling a detroit is almost invisable until you lock the CDL on a LT230 the reason for this is what jack is talking about with the BW all the time. The BW will transfer the torque away from the locked end of the truck until it reaches it biasing ratio. thats really not a good thing offroad nd sure not ideal.

[ccollins]

Thanks for the input guys. So just to be clear the BW has about the same performance as an unlocked LT230? I was under the impression that the BW locked and unlocked when needed. Thanks again for all the replys.

[rover4x4]

Yeah it does, an unlocked LT is like having one wheel drive. When the BW dies my RRC will get an LT. JSQ can come up with some shit.

[KevinNY]

Problem is Jacqui gets off on putting people down instead of helping. He also thinks he is the worlds greatest authority on anything he speaks of, a huge sign of immaturity and the corollary to SY. Sometimes Jackie has it right, but he feels the need to be a little big man in the way he delivers it. I've tried to speak to him directly but he has refused to be civil so I have written him off as a small man on both the inside and out.

[az_max]

:popcorn:

[KevinNY]

Go ahead and finish your pocorn, I am done with the thread.

[az_max]

Ok Jack, if you were on a budget, which would you do first:

24 spline and locker of choice (front and rear)
or
Lt-230

Which would give the greater bang for the buck and still keep a streetable vehicle?


(no, I'm not being an ass. I'd like to know your opinion.)

[DennyDoler]

Scott the B/W is definitly coming out before URE. I think I've milked out the last drop out of it and it's time to go.

[flyfisher11]

.....as it applies to this post when crawling a detroit is almost invisable until you lock the CDL on a LT230 .....

Absolutely correct! Chad I don't know if you were with us going up the "center" trail at Caney when Brandon ahead of me was going up a steep obstacle and was getting stuck. It was late after a long day of wheeling and we had come down the highway off of Rough Butt back to the center trail so we were all unlocked. Brandon forgot to lock the CDL and his back wheels (with DL) were not even moving on that obstacle/climb. We yelled at him to check and he locked the CDL and like nothing the back tires bit and he rolled right up and over like nothing. Musky just reminded me of that and that reminded me of a real world case of it right in front of me on the trail.

Cheers,

Mike

[GregH]

LOL

I believe Jack is referring to me when he talks about the capabilities of BW TC with Detroit rear and open front. Both he and I learned from my experience on the Dusy Ershim trail and since.

I wheeled for years (since '92)with BW and open front/rear and did pretty well mastering my left-footed braking technique as well as using proper momentum and carefully picking my line.

I recall wheeling with Jack and Aaron in Death Valley with my open-diffed RRC and having no probs getting over an obstacle that Jack would have difficulty with simply because of my choice of line and throttle/brake control.

However, before Dusy I added a Detroit and GBR/MD 24 spline axles to the rear. I was quite frustrated my first day on the trail on Dusy as I became the winch queen. I think I winched 4+ times before Thompson Hill.

The Detroit was obvious at times when I had traction in the rear feeling the "push" of the locker. However, there were also times (like when popping the front tires over an obstacle) that I had plenty of rear traction yet I wasn't moving.

I finally figured out that when the front axle had NO traction yet the rear HAD traction I was not going to move. I could stand on the throttle and watch the rear tires take a bite but I was not moving and the front was spinning. This did not happen to all the others since they had LT230's. They would crawl right through.

What was happening was power was going to the rear tires but the VC was allowing all excess power to the front where there was no traction and thus no movement.

Adding a locker to the rear of an RRC and leaving the BW will leave you without the main benefits of the locker in many situations.

[D Chapman]

Ok Jack, if you were on a budget, which would you do first:

24 spline and locker of choice (front and rear)
or
Lt-230

Which would give the greater bang for the buck and still keep a streetable vehicle?


(no, I'm not being an ass. I'd like to know your opinion.)


That's a no-brainer. You should replace the T-case first.

The t-case is a weak link. Once it does blow, and it will, the VC runs a 50/50 chance of breaking open or closed. So, basically, you run the risk of losing a t-case on the trail.

That's not to say the LT-230 never breaks. It does. But the chances are slim in comparison.

The only good thing to come out of the BW t-case is the one-piece cross shaft.

[JSQ]

That's a no-brainer. You should replace the T-case first.

The t-case is a weak link. Once it does blow, and it will, the VC runs a 50/50 chance of breaking open or closed. So, basically, you run the risk of losing a t-case on the trail.

That's not to say the LT-230 never breaks. It does. But the chances are slim in comparison.

The only good thing to come out of the BW t-case is the one-piece cross shaft.

That pretty much sums it up.

[simon]

Thanks for the input guys. So just to be clear the BW has about the same performance as an unlocked LT230? I was under the impression that the BW locked and unlocked when needed. Thanks again for all the replys.

I would start by installing LSD front/Rear... if the VC works it will be a great addition to the truck for years, again until the VC craps out... it will be inexpensive too... it will be softer on your half shafts too...

I know LT230 change should be first but it is a pain in the A$$, I have procrastinated this instal for years already... I guess I will be doing it sooner or later...

conclusion, do what you feel, if you make a mistake learn from it... it is a hobby not a career.. unless it is..

my $0.00002

Simon.

[MUSKYMAN]

Simon

The LT230 swap is actually pretty cheap to do because of all the inexpensive LT230's around.

total cost should be under $500

doing 2 LSD's is going to cost you min of $700 no matter how you look at it.

[landrovered]

I got a nice ZF HP22 and LT230 for $300!

[benlittle]

I'm running TT with longfields up front, BW and DT with rovertracks rear axles. I'm going to do a LT swap in the next week or two. Not because it blew but because I'm changing my tranny and figure, what the hell... Why I'm in there.

I personally can't say that it does/ doesn't work. I've wheeled this truck ONCE with this setup and it actually worked quite well. While my truck was running :D That's not to say that it won't blow on my next trip.

The part of my truck that didn't work was the fuel pump :(

[landrovered]

I did my LT swap because my BW died. I would admit that it seems harder to the LT swap than lockers but from what people are saying here if you do the lockers first you may have no choice on the T-Case down the road.

[Gordo]

I ran a BW with ARBs and it worked, but I now have the LT and I do believe it works better. Im not buying that a open diffed LT will outwheel a locked BW, thats bullshit unless you VC is toast. That being said I agree that the BW is a weak link. MY VC went once and my Chain was hitting the case when I tossed it. Gordo

[benlittle]

I did my LT swap because my BW died. I would admit that it seems harder to the LT swap than lockers but from what people are saying here if you do the lockers first you may have no choice on the T-Case down the road.

I agree.

[MUSKYMAN]

I am collecting parts right now to swap a LT230 into a 95 RRC...I just dont see the reason to try and run a BW when they all are destined to VC failure. Plus since this truck will be doing ski car duty I have to say the CDL is the ticket.

[MUSKYMAN]

my Chain was hitting the case when I tossed it. Gordo

chain is a dirty word in my 4x4 book

[simon]

Simon

The LT230 swap is actually pretty cheap to do because of all the inexpensive LT230's around.

total cost should be under $500

doing 2 LSD's is going to cost you min of $700 no matter how you look at it.


Musky, the price for the LT is cheap that is true but, the amount of work it takes (at least for me) is way more than the LSDs... I did 2 Disco I LT-230 installs and I don't want to do them again.. LOL... and for what it looks like, this kid is going to have this done somewhere and he is going to get shafted for that install.

anyway, people disrespect those LSD's, they are fine for most of the stuff, remember PK? that mofo went everywhere with LSD's and stock half shafts.. and when he couldn't he winched the rest of the way... LOL

later,
Simon

[simon]

by the way I am not advocating that the BW is better I know they are either junk or soon to be in the Junk... but in ICE I would take a working BW instead... sorry I had to say it....
Simon.

[D Chapman]

Why is a LT-230 swap so hard? It's like a total of 6-bolts, 2 mounts, some linkage and wiring harness....a cross member, y-pipe and the drive shafts. It's hardly a hard or timley job. With two people, it's a half day swap.

[Gordo]

chain is a dirty word in my 4x4 book


Well put Thom. Its not the first one Ive seen a chain hitting the case on either. I agree its a pretty easy swap too.

[benlittle]

Why is a LT-230 swap so hard? It's like a total of 6-bolts, 2 mounts, some linkage and wiring harness....a cross member, y-pipe and the drive shafts. It's hardly a hard or timley job. With two people, it's a half day swap.

True.

[galen216]

Why is a LT-230 swap so hard? It's like a total of 6-bolts, 2 mounts, some linkage and wiring harness....a cross member, y-pipe and the drive shafts. It's hardly a hard or timley job. With two people, it's a half day swap.

Great, when should I be over to start mine?

[jymmiejamz]

I don't see what is so difficult about the lt230 swap, I've done two now and they are pretty simple. I think the worst part is all of the plastic interior shit breaking from being so old, but I fixed mine with some epoxy.

[benlittle]

I think most are just intimidated for some reason. I don't know much but what I have learned is having the right tools and parts is like 90% of the job ;)

[landrovered]

I got my Detroit today. Is this a DIY or should I send it out. From reading the manual it seems if I don't touch the pinion then it is pretty straight forward. What is your experience?

[D Chapman]

Get new bearings, too?

1)check backlash
2)remove carrier
3)remove ring gear from carrier
4)install ring gear on DT
5)install DT
6)set backlash to the same spec as it was before you removed the stock carrier, maybe a shade tighter to allow for the bearings to set in.

Done.

[landrovered]

Thanks, that is what I was thinking!

I want to get new bearings before I pull the chunk but can't find the timiken number anywhere. I figured I could pull the old ones and then order them but would rather have them before I begin the job.

Do you know the bearing number for timiken? The LR number is RTC 2726 but that does me no good at NAPA.

[D Chapman]

I'm not even sure that the LR bearing will fit.

I think it's Timken set 37, but I'll look it up in a bit. So, don't quote me there.

[landrovered]

If you wouldn't mind I would appreciate it.

[benlittle]

Also make sure you accurately line up hte caps onto the threads/ over the holes on both sides. It will make sense when you get it out ;)

Keep the pinion tight as shit while you rotate the ring gear back and forth, checking the backlash. It takes a few times to get it accurate. At first the needle will be going all over the place, hense the reason to keep the pinion way tight.

bearings (http://discoweb.org/forums/showthread.php?t=42479)

[MUSKYMAN]

set 37 is the spindle bearings not the carrier bearings

[MUSKYMAN]

S/S STC1602 carrier bearings

[landrovered]

Got a cross reference number to Timiken?

[JSQ]

Problem is Jacqui gets off on putting people down instead of helping. He also thinks he is the worlds greatest authority on anything he speaks of, a huge sign of immaturity and the corollary to SY. Sometimes Jackie has it right, but he feels the need to be a little big man in the way he delivers it. I've tried to speak to him directly but he has refused to be civil so I have written him off as a small man on both the inside and out.

KevinNY is worried that I'm "immature" and is concerned that my focus is on posturing on the internet. He doesn't like the idea that someone would uncivil and he doesn't approve of belittling someone else.

At least that's what KevinNY claims when he's trying to be Mr. High Road.

But strangely when Mr. High Road is self-righteously criticizing others he's really describing KevinNY. When he steps into a technical argument because he doesn't like the tone it's taken he's really doing nothing more than raising his personal issues. No tech and certainly no substance. Just holier-than-thou whining. Kevin Buckley is just the East Coast Kevin Mokracek.
KevinNY and KellyMoe both drive outlandish beaters that they think make them exclusive.
KevinNY and KellyMoe are both "officers" in their respective clubs.
KevinNY and KellyMoe both like to think they're hardcore outdoorsmen.
KevinNY and KellyMoe both like to play Mr. High Road.
And finally KevinNY and KellyMoe both have some bizarre personal obsession with me.

In fact, both of these loser Kevins are running a parallel course 3,000 miles apart. After they each have failed to find a niche for themselves in their respective Land Rover scenes they look for some sort of validation on the web. For some reason they eventually want to be buddies with me. If their love is unrequitted it turns ugly. If they jealously imagine that I'm "too good" to be bestest web buddies with them they immediately put on their Mr. High Road hats and start waxing about their "standards" and "principles" and other imaginary bullshit. But it doesn't work. Because these pathetic attempts are totally transparent. The Mr. High Road(s) are soon called out for really being petty and hypocritical Mr. Low Road(s). Just like John called out Nathan Woods. It happened to Kevin Mokracek when he tried to be Mr. Christian-thing-to-do with SCLR and it happend to Kevin Buckley when he tried to be Range Safety Officer on the EE bbs.

After this embarassment the Kevins start to get creepy.
KellyMoe felt so spited that he created a new persona here on discoweb, Jay S. Cue (http://www.discoweb.org/forums/member.php?u=12737), in order to imitate me.
KevinNY sent me the two love letters attached below. When I wasn't interested in being his Land Rover boyfriend he resorted to the "small man" comments. Ironic, because from what I hear from the National Rally, Kevin Buckley hardly cuts and imposing figure.

[MUSKYMAN]

that was the cross reffrence for the napa bearing as I recall...the rover number is RTC2726

[landrovered]

Thanks!

[Drillbit]

An east coast west coast thing? Gee JSQ that makes you tupac, you get hit first. Avoid Vegas fights and elevators.

[landrovered]

STC1602 does not correlate to any Timiken numbers. Any ideas?

[benlittle]

If you need carrier bearings they are set 47's. You need two.

I believe the stock carrier bearings in a RRC are too small.

[john]

Those love letters from Kevin Buckley are awesome.

Thanks for sharing.

[GregH]

The BW TC is not as bad as some here are portraying.

If I had a stocker RRC that was primarily a family hauler and only saw light wheeling and ski-car duty I would prefer a BW TC. It is quieter and I prefer it to the LT230 in snow-driving situations. There's a reason why Land Rover picked the BW for the RRC-it is more in tune with the main market who purchased the truck. It definitely wasn't to save costs.

However, if your truck is primarily for wheeling/expedition-type use-the strength, reliability, and lockability of the LT230 are a no-brainer.

[luvs2getmuddy]

JSQ, you sir, are a fool who has completely twisted my posts and taken them out of context to make me seem bad.
Congratu-fucking-lations. You need to go and do something more productive with your life than go and search people's old posts and blow them out of context.
Do you feel better about yourself now? You, sir, are a low life.

I am not even going to stoop down to your level and try to belittle you in aniway, quite frankly, I don't haev the time to.

[JSQ]

JSQ, you sir, are a fool who has completely twisted my posts and taken them out of context to make me seem bad.
Congratu-fucking-lations. You need to go and do something more productive with your life than go and search people's old posts and blow them out of context.
Do you feel better about yourself now? You, sir, are a low life.

I am not even going to stoop down to your level and try to belittle you in aniway, quite frankly, I don't haev the time to.


I would love to hear which of luvs2getmuddy's retarded neophyte posts are "taken out of context", especially if such an exercise could reveal that luvs2getmuddy has any fucking clue what he's talking about.

But I aint getting my hopes up.

Of course like all losers luvs2getmuddy "doesn't have the time", so we won't be hearing anything substantive.
But we will keep hearing from him.
That sort of lame contradiction is inherent to chumps like luvs2getmuddy.

Everything they say is the opposite of the truth.
If they claim to be knowledgeable then you can be sure they don't know shit.
If they claim to be experienced then you can be sure they haven't done shit.
If they claim to be done or lack the time, you'll soon be hearing more of their shit.

[galen216]

The BW TC is not as bad as some here are portraying.

If I had a stocker RRC that was primarily a family hauler and only saw light wheeling and ski-car duty I would prefer a BW TC. It is quieter and I prefer it to the LT230 in snow-driving situations. There's a reason why Land Rover picked the BW for the RRC-it is more in tune with the main market who purchased the truck. It definitely wasn't to save costs.

However, if your truck is primarily for wheeling/expedition-type use-the strength, reliability, and lockability of the LT230 are a no-brainer.

Until it locks up tight and blows a CV like mine did on the way to MAR.

LT-230 is waiting to be installed with all the parts needed......

[Nomar]

Shhhhhhh.........

What Galen meant to say was he blew a CV joint on the Rovertym challenge's toughest obstacle....;)

[luvs2getmuddy]

I would love to hear which of luvs2getmuddy's retarded neophyte posts are "taken out of context", especially if such an exercise could reveal that luvs2getmuddy has any fucking clue what he's talking about.

But I aint getting my hopes up.

Of course like all losers luvs2getmuddy "doesn't have the time", so we won't be hearing anything substantive.
But we will keep hearing from him.
That sort of lame contradiction is inherent to chumps like luvs2getmuddy.

Everything they say is the opposite of the truth.
If they claim to be knowledgeable then you can be sure they don't know shit.
If they claim to be experienced then you can be sure they haven't done shit.
If they claim to be done or lack the time, you'll soon be hearing more of their shit.
Man, I sit here and laugh, I really do. I laugh at how you think you are god's gift to human kind because you seem to know more than most about LR's. Here is a news flash, in the real world, it doesn't matter.

I never claimed to be the all knowing LR guru, you know why? Because it doesn't matter, it really doesn't, you might impress a few on the board with your high and mighty way, and the fact that you know a LR bearing number off the top off your head, but you know what? That doesn't get you a work promotion(unless you work for LR), doesnt get you laid, it doesn't get you that house you wanted, that car you wanted, etc.

I never claimed to be a know-it-all, I post my opinions 99% of the time. Most of the time, as you will notice if you can read/interpret properly, you will see that (for ex, the cross drilled rotor thread), I am stating something I've heard, and in a way asking, "Is it true".

Also, my truck is a beater, you are absolutely right, I use it on weekends when I go beat it in the bush, and then it gets parked right next to my M5. Is it the greatest on the board? Fuck no. Do I claim it to be? Absolutely not. I am an enthusiast like most on here, I am here to learn, discuss, find out I am wrong, and learn some more. DO I ask some newb Questions? Ofcourse. Why Not?

You are an inconsiderate, shallow, bully. Let me guess, LR are your life, and you want to feel all HIGH anf Mighty every time you put a newb down like me? AM I right? I told you once, and I will say it again, you are a pathetic online bully.
You know how I know? Because I legitimetely asked you to enlighten me on why I am wrong, but you just to attack me, like a pheasant.
Instead of "owning me" with information and fact, you turned it into a personal attack. Good for you, keyboard warrier you!

And you are wrong, this is my last post, directed to you.

[D Chapman]

Well that did not take long

[MUSKYMAN]

I thought of this thread all day saturday as I watched a BW equiped RRC flounder and spin rear tires as the fronts sat stopped behind small rocks.

any kind of brake modulation just stopped the truck dead in its tracks.

I am glad people like their BW equiped RRC's ...in fact hey anyone want the one I am pulling out of my freshly restored RRC:rofl:

[luvs2getmuddy]

I thought of this thread all day saturday as I watched a BW equiped RRC flounder and spin rear tires as the fronts sat stopped behind small rocks.

any kind of brake modulation just stopped the truck dead in its tracks.

I am glad people like their BW equiped RRC's ...in fact hey anyone want the one I am pulling out of my freshly restored RRC:rofl:

I cannot speak for all LR's and I do not dipute the fact that the LT is a superior t-case to the BW, however, I do feel people do not give the BW enough credit for what it is capable of.

When mine blows up, chances are I will probably have the LT put in. Until then, I don't feel there is a need for me to jump the gun, considering I wheel fairly hard(for the truck)(not like in the pictures our dear friend has posted of my first outing with my, at the time, stock truck), and it seems to do well. I always try and keep an eye on my front wheels to see if they are spinning, and they seem to always be spinning when I need them to(in sync with the rear). If the BW was as bad as some of you make it out to be, I don't believe a lot of the RR on the board would go places that they do.
Either way, I think we are beating a dead horse now.

[MUSKYMAN]

its not about where they go its about how hard they have to work to get there...see thats where you lack of time on the trail fails you.

in the end if a truck needs to work harder to get somewhere at some point thats going to cause a failure that will either strand you or delay and ruin your day.

and that dosent even address comfort...spinning tires and having to attemp over and over to get past a obstacle dosent add to comfort.

in the end in my opinion chains just dont belong in a well designed and set up 4x4.

[p m]

in the end in my opinion chains just dont belong in a well designed and set up 4x4.
hey, don't knock the BW 1339!

Chains are okay in my book (it's lack of maintenance that kills half-ton chain-driven t-cases, not the weakness of the design). Viscous coupler in place of a diff lock is a different story.

[D Chapman]

I cannot speak for all LR's and I do not dipute the fact that the LT is a superior t-case to the BW, however, I do feel people do not give the BW enough credit for what it is capable of.

When mine blows up, chances are I will probably have the LT put in. Until then, I don't feel there is a need for me to jump the gun, considering I wheel fairly hard(for the truck)(not like in the pictures our dear friend has posted of my first outing with my, at the time, stock truck), and it seems to do well. I always try and keep an eye on my front wheels to see if they are spinning, and they seem to always be spinning when I need them to(in sync with the rear). If the BW was as bad as some of you make it out to be, I don't believe a lot of the RR on the board would go places that they do.
Either way, I think we are beating a dead horse now.



You're kidding, right?

They don't give the BW enough credit? Seriously?

The BW is fine in my Astro van at work. It's great. But my Astro van is not attempting to roll over rocks or climb out of thick mud.

If you think your BW is working great in "fairly hard" wheeling conditions, you have no idea what you're looking for or what you're seeing. In other words, you're clueless.

A BW in a mini van......yeah, that's about right.

[Gordo]

I thought of this thread all day saturday as I watched a BW equiped RRC flounder and spin rear tires as the fronts sat stopped behind small rocks.

any kind of brake modulation just stopped the truck dead in its tracks.

I am glad people like their BW equiped RRC's ...in fact hey anyone want the one I am pulling out of my freshly restored RRC:rofl:


20 bucks if you pull a d/s out that RRC it wouldnt move at all. Sounds like the VC is already toasted in that truck. I had that happen to me once, pulled the d/s sounded like marbles banging around in my tbox and it didnt move.

[D Chapman]

20 bucks if you pull a d/s out that RRC it wouldnt move at all. Sounds like the VC is already toasted in that truck. I had that happen to me once, pulled the d/s sounded like marbles banging around in my tbox and it didnt move.


That's normal

[MUSKYMAN]

20 bucks if you pull a d/s out that RRC it wouldnt move at all. Sounds like the VC is already toasted in that truck. I had that happen to me once, pulled the d/s sounded like marbles banging around in my tbox and it didnt move.

yeah I happen to think the VC was on its last legs...it did actually transfer some torque at times for sure but it was anemic with its ability.

the funny thing was that a 2003 DII with no CDL made it look bad all day long....shows how little torque transfer was really going on.

[luvs2getmuddy]

So you are comparing a Near blown BW to a well operating BW now?

I am not trying to argue that the LT is a SUPERIOR T-case, it is, but that doesn't mean the BW will blow up after tryign to climb the first curb.

I do agree that a BW is most likely working harder in the same situation than a LT, but as long as it is working, right? :D

AS i said, I will be switching to a LT, one day.

PS, I am not a 4x4 junkie/guru by any means. Not yet.

[p m]

luvs, here's one thing I absolutely agree with Thom (not the only thing) - a chain-driven transfer case AND an automatic locker is a really bad combination. Even regardless of whether you can manually lock the center diff or not.

[Ren Ching]

Hi all. I bought my beater 91 Rangie off Craigslist this year because it came with front and rear ARB's. I've had it on obstacles that I probably wouldn't have even tried in my Series trucks. With both lockers in it is quite capable, despite the loose nut behind the steering wheel.

When I got the truck the VC was seized causing the front tires to scrub on tight turns. I replaced the VC with a 2nd hand unit (0$) that eliminated the scrubbing issue. After years of wheeling with series trucks, it's hard for me to compare the VC drivetrain since I now usually just blip the ARB's when things start to go south. (i know, that's cheating) :)

SO I guess what I'm wondering is this. Muskyman and others who have experience with this, are we saying that even when functioning properly the VC does not provide complete lockup? Are there situations where a properly functioning VC will allow all torque to transmit through one axle? And if so, how does this happen as part of normal VC function and how is it exacerbated by the presence of a locker at either end? Or does it just mean that the VC is failing and needs to be replaced?

thanks,
ren

[Gordo]

I dont think it ever really provides complete lock up. My understanding is it 'rotates' the power to the axle with the most traction. Not all 100% so yes each axle will still get some power. I had one for years with dual ARBs and it never caused me any grief, except when the VC went out and the chain started hitting the case. I wheel mostly mud though so a VC isnt so bad in those conditions, in fact a good working BW may be better in slick conditions, especially with open diffs.

[landrovered]

My understanding is that a proper functioning BW will give 90% lock up.

[MUSKYMAN]

the VC will never lock up if it is working correctly, what it does is is get tighter.

what a viscous coupler is is a bunch of friction plates all sandwitched together, it is sealed in a compartment and has a silicone fluid that is heat sensitive or thermal dynamic in that the viscocity changes as the temperature changes.

as the plates turn together one set connected to the front shaft and one connected to the rear shaft the temperature of the viscous fluid stays the same. as the plates spin at different speeds the shearing of the fuid causes it to get hot and as it does it gets thicker and increases the friction between the front shaft plates and the rear shaft plates.

the sealed compartments often leak and allow the total volume of fluid to become less so the total friction between the plates becomes less and the amount of torque transfer to the front shaft gets reduced.

The fluid also can get cooked from to much slipage and when this happens the fluid that is left solidifies like plastic and locks the plates together making both the front and rear shafts always spin at the same speed and this is what caused the scuffing around corners you had.

VC's are great systems when they work and solve a number of problems that 4x4 systems suffer from, but when they fail they often cause other systems to fail like axle shafts ,cv's, driveshafts and transfercase chains.

If you have the $500 or so it costs to convert and you wheel your truck a LT230 will give you alot better performance.

[Nomar]

hey ren,
My RRC was just like yours in the beginning...2 ARB lockers and the BW w/ VC.
Many times it would fluctuate/modulate in some degree of front to rear lockup. Both rears would turn, then the fronts would catch up, etc.
I wheeled it like this for the better part of a year and eventually put an LT in it.

[MUSKYMAN]

My understanding is that a proper functioning BW will give 90% lock up.


there really is never a "lock-up"

there is a ratio of one output shaft speed relative to the other and this is controlled by the number and size of plates in the VC and the viscocity charachteristics of the fluid.

some transfercases actually have both a VC and a locking mechanism so you can lock out the VC. the reason for this is to prevent over heating the VC in heavy usage.

[landrovered]

Perhaps I should have said 90% power transfer.

Edit: That wouldn't be right either would it. I was in a conversation with a well known LR drivetrain person and discussed the BW and he said the 90% lockup bit, perhaps he meant it "effectively".

[Gore Ranger]

This is totally anectdotal, not explained in technical terms, but I have the LT230 in my truck, used to have the BW. It is night and day. My BW was damn near new so I have to think the VC or whatever was functioning properly.

Problem was: when I got crossaxled on certain obstacles, it would literally only be 1 wheel drive. In Moab, I ran Fins N things and also elephant hill last spring with the BW. Did not make it through Fins N Things entirely, and barely made it out of Elephant Hill.

The same trails with the LT230 this fall, diff lock engaged, and it makes that same obstacle on Fins N Things look like a walk in the park. the difference is silly.

Total cost was less than 500, and that was professional installation, but I did spend a little over 100 on the proper style center console. Fact of the matter: that swap should be the first or one of the first modifications.

[Ren Ching]

That is very helpful. I am familiar with the principles and design of the VC units, and those failure modes though not in such detail. The improvement offered by the LT230 is well known and not in question at all. I don't know if my ailing RR will last long enough to be worth the swap. There's an LT230 RR in a junkyard here too so I could have one for much less than the suggested cost :)

This is good tech coming out on the VC's. In my searches here before it was not discussed in this much detail. To follow up, I am still unclear on one thing: Are you saying that a properly functioning unit will still allow slippage or even 100% torque transfer to a given axle in certain situations? It appears that you are not actually saying that but I am just trying to be sure I understand.

I guess the bottom line is that given the difficulty of diagnosing a partially failed VC, and the other obvious advantages of the lt230 over the BW, it is somewhat of a moot point. But it is good tech anyway IMO.

thanks again
ren

edit/follow up: ok I guess Im kinda rambling @ this point and a buncha posts came in while I was typing the above. At the summer ROAV event someone said that my front axle was not spinning even though I was locked front and back. Sounds alot like Nomar's experience.

[p m]

If you guys care, here's another thing to consider - how limited slip differentials differ from one another.

A TruTrac will bias more torque if more torque is provided at the input.
A VC will bias torque with increase in the relative rate of rotation between the shafts.

The brake modulation technique works extremely well with TTs, and nowhere close to that with the VC.

[MUSKYMAN]

as I mentioned above brake modulation just stops a a VC in its tracks.

the reason for this is that a VC needs slipage to transfer ANY torque to the secondary shaft.

when you brake modulate you are adding resistanve to the slipping wheels theis reduces the amount of torque being transferred accross the VC.

so a VC is kinda like traction control "ya gotta gas it"...LOL

[p m]

as I mentioned above brake modulation just stops a a VC in its tracks.
Strictly speaking, that is when one axle has much less traction than the other (going up a steep hill, for instance).
In cross-axle situation it'll work.

[Gordo]

ren, its quite simple to test a vc. pull either d/s, if it moves and drives normally its fine (unless of course its locked up but then you would have chirping around corners). If its slower than normal its near dead, and if it wont move its toast. This test is in the manual. One wheel drive is pretty clear sign of it being toasted, esprcially if your "gasing it". Ive always heard it will go 80/20. In more than one instance, I could feel it rotating torque while reving when slinging some mud

[Roverlady]

So, what I'm understanding from all of this is...

wheel the truck (lightly) with BW but without any lockers

or go LT230?

[MUSKYMAN]

I wouldent say that...lots of people that have had luck with ARB's in BW equiped RRC's

I think the real message is that for about $500 you can do a LT 230 swap and have a more capable truck that is more reliable in the long run.

VC's are very age dependent in all applications...and lets face it they are ALL getting old these days.

[Roverlady]

Good point. At 15 years and 170K miles...it's definitely something to remember!

[Blueboy]

lots of people that have had luck with ARB's in BW equiped RRC's


I'm not one of them.

that was the way my Rangie was set-up and like others have mentioned, it didn't work when you really needed traction from the front wheels.

it really rung true in Moab on some on the ledges - the front would have traction, yet, the power was not going in that direction so both rear wheels would just spin as they were locked.

just be done with it and install a LT230.


Jaime

[JSQ]

So, what I'm understanding from all of this is...

wheel the truck (lightly) with BW but without any lockers

or go LT230?

That's fairly accurate and straightforward.

Keep the open-diffed V/C truck for snowy roads and put the LT-230 in if you plan to fourwheel.

[JSQ]

I am not even going to stoop down to your level and try to belittle you in aniway, quite frankly, I don't haev the time to.


If they claim to be done or lack the time, you'll soon be hearing more of their shit.

You are an inconsiderate, shallow, bully. Let me guess, LR are your life, and you want to feel all HIGH anf Mighty every time you put a newb down like me? AM I right? I told you once, and I will say it again, you are a pathetic online bully.
You know how I know? Because I legitimetely asked you to enlighten me on why I am wrong, but you just to attack me, like a pheasant.
Instead of "owning me" with information and fact, you turned it into a personal attack. Good for you, keyboard warrier you!

And you are wrong, this is my last post, directed to you.

Well that did not take long

I guess luvs2getmuddy found some time to belittle me.
These chumps are so predictable that we know what they are going to post before they know themselves.
And even when we tell them the mistake they are about to make, they can't help themselves.

[JSQ]

Also, my truck is a beater, you are absolutely right, I use it on weekends when I go beat it in the bush, and then it gets parked right next to my M5.

I'm guessing luvs2getmuddy's M5 is a beater just like his RRC.
It's a 1991 E34.
Only 1200 of these were brought to the US. Not that many have survived. Only one out of maybe every twenty I've seen was in decent shape. The rest are all used up.
I can't believe that a Canadian car owned by a chump like luvs2getmuddy is going to be anything more than a junker.

luvs2getmuddy wanted to brag about his BMW.
That's why he listed a non-Rover in his profile and couldn't help himself from mentioning it in this thread.

Let's see the pics.
I'm guessing it's a pile.


When mine blows up, chances are I will probably have the LT put in. Until then, I don't feel there is a need for me to jump the gun, considering I wheel fairly hard(for the truck)(not like in the pictures our dear friend has posted of my first outing with my, at the time, stock truck), and it seems to do well.

luvs2getmuddy "wheels fairly hard" so he's not going to put in an LT-230 until his Borg Warner V/C blows up???

This is fucking retarded, even for luvs2getmuddy.

If, as he claims, luvs2getmuddy was really a big-time hardcore fourwheeler he would have already smoked his V/C or stretched his chain just like all the people with real experience who are chiming in on this thread.
But he's not. So he'll just lie about some shit he's never done.

But more importantly if, as he claims, luvs2getmuddy was an experienced fourwheeler he would know better than to wait for as devastating of carnage as transfer case failure to happen on the trail. If he had any real experience with field repair or extracting a disabled vehicle on a difficult trail he'd be taking care of shit beforehand, not waiting until his deferred maintenance becomes someone else's problem.
But he's not. So he'll just be the inconsiderate and clueless asshole on the trail.

Oh and apparently luvs2getmuddy is now claiming that the pics I linked to were just his baby pics from the early days, but now he's a hardcore fourwheeler.

Okay.
When luvs2getmuddy posts up pics of his sweet 17 year old M5 he should add some from his most current fourwheeling album.
We're sure to be impressed.

[D Chapman]

Hmmmm.
1991 BMW M5 .:Black on Black:.-TMS Chip,Smoked Lights, Style 5's-235/255, Magnaflow HiFlo cats, BB TriFlow Exhaust, K&N, Eibach/Bilsteins,SSK, 6K HID's. US Ellips

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1031089

[D Chapman]

Have no mistake, Jack. This guy is the real deal. http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1084029

[D Chapman]

When ever I buy a sweet car, the first thing I like to do is buy a Bra for the front end.

Reminds me of the Ford EXP.
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1063097

[Ren Ching]

hey I like this. now I can blame all my poor driving on the viscous unit...

:)

I think mine passed the test that is in the WSM when i was installing it. Can't for the life of me remmber now, or really care to be honest. It's in there and the car works better than before. If I keep it long enough I'll probably do the lt230 swap. just not sure if I want to weld floors and sills and inner fenders when I can see cracks forming in the frame...I'd be better off with a cheap d1 or less rotten rangie.

thanks again
ren

[JSQ]

Hmmmm.
1991 BMW M5 .:Black on Black:.-TMS Chip,Smoked Lights, Style 5's-235/255, Magnaflow HiFlo cats, BB TriFlow Exhaust, K&N, Eibach/Bilsteins,SSK, 6K HID's. US Ellips

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1031089

I fucking knew it.
What a piece of shit.

I can't believe this asshole luvs2getmuddy aka BMWM5LOVER ruined one of the few E34 M5s left. Or maybe he bought it all pimped out and hacked up. I'm not sure what's worse.

-TMS Chip
This is a budget ricer mod. CAI, chip and exhaust are what every fucking boy racer just has to do to their car. Of course they never bother to figure out if it's a good idea. They just go for it. This chip is a joke. Power from the S38 B36 is not the shortcoming of this car. The best thing you can do to this car to actually make YOU faster in it is switch to the 6-speed gearbox. Only 752 of the Euro-spec 3.8L S38 E34 M5s had this gearbox. Everyone gets hung up on the improvements of the B38 variant powerplant of the Euro cars, but it's the gearbox that makes them great. The ratios of the later gearbox offer so much more than some ricer chip. Of course I can fucking guarantee you that luvs2getmuddy aka BMWM5LOVER hasn't done the gearbox swap. You know why? Two reasons: Because you have to know enough to look past horsepower and you have to spend some real money.

-Smoke Lights
So retarded it speaks for itself. Unappealing and dangerous.

-Style 5's-235/255
Unfuckingbelievable. luvs2getmuddy aka BMWM5LOVER changed out the bitchin "Turbines" for some pimp gold BBS clone wheels. Not only are the Turbines a beautiful and unique wheel, but they are incredibly effective for cooling the brakes. Impressive. luvs2getmuddy aka BMWM5LOVER actually made his car look worse and brake worse at the same time. If you just have to run the 9" rim in the rear with a 255 at least go with the M-System II design "Throwing Stars".

-Magnaflow HiFlo cats, BB TriFlow Exhaust
You know you're dealing with a real E34 M5 rookie when he fucks with the exhaust. Guaranteed luvs2getmuddy aka BMWM5LOVER actually lost power with this mod. The only thing you can hope to do with the E34 M5 exhaust is save weight. It's very efficient from the factory. Now I wouldn't fault luvs2getmuddy aka BMWM5LOVER for trying a free flow exhaust if it was 1991 and he just dropped $88,000 on his //M car rather than the roughly 10K he picked it up for. Back then no one knew better. But by the late 90s it had been tried and everyone knew not to mess with the exhaust. It's a waste of money.

-K&N
Put this one with the chip and the exhaust. They belong on your import tuner car. It didn't do shit for luvs2getmuddy aka BMWM5LOVER on his M5.

-Eibach/Bilsteins
luvs2getmuddy aka BMWM5LOVER ditched the sweet self-leveling suspension of the E34 M5. One of the thing that makes it a true sport sedan. A people hauler and a rocket ship. It looks even lower than the 20mm the factory dropped. I'm guessing that when luvs2getmuddy aka BMWM5LOVER rolls to the Tim Hortons after kickball league with his teammates piled in the back seat it bottoms on every speed bump because his suspension can't take the weight.

-SSK
A short shift kit for all of luvs2getmuddy aka BMWM5LOVER's stoplight drag races. Yeah because it's the shift throw that's making you lose to Audi's. Keep telling yourself that.

-6K HID's.
Pimp lights. Of course.
Now it's not that the E34 doesn't have weak headlights and fogs by today's standards. It definitely does. But they will certainly do. And the money luvs2getmuddy aka BMWM5LOVER spent on these lights along with his other ricer mods could have gone into the cookie jar for the sweet Getrag Type D six-speed gearbox or just have been set aside for valve jobs.

Basically luvs2getmuddy aka BMWM5LOVER ruined a BMW that's nearly perfect stock. He actually decreased it's performance and diminished it's style.

What a shame.
If luvs2getmuddy actually loved the BMW M5 as his screen name proclaims, he would have left it the fuck alone.

[JSQ]

Have no mistake, Jack. This guy is the real deal. http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1084029

Dear God.

This (http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i151/soxja/n501892591_299149_4149.jpg) is the kind of fourwheeling that luvs2getmuddy has graduated to?

Nice Camel Trophy stickers and sandglow paint.
Just in case there was anyone at all left who wasn't completely sure that you're a total poseur.

[Ren Ching]

seems like a lot of love goin' around...

:rofl::rofl:

luvs2getmuddy aka BMWM5LOVER

[az_max]

Hmmmm.
1991 BMW M5 .:Black on Black:.-TMS Chip,Smoked Lights, Style 5's-235/255, Magnaflow HiFlo cats, BB TriFlow Exhaust, K&N, Eibach/Bilsteins,SSK, 6K HID's. US Ellips

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1031089


Dunno man, I like it. wouldn't be bad for a daily driver. Think he'd trade for a g35?

[MUSKYMAN]

Dunno man, I like it. wouldn't be bad for a daily driver. Think he'd trade for a g35?

nope jack is right on ...he took a rare car and made it near worthless.

kinda like when guys pitch the stock rims on the 80's M6's so they can use standard size tires...you spend money to make the car worth less.

[az_max]

nope jack is right on ...he took a rare car and made it near worthless.

kinda like when guys pitch the stock rims on the 80's M6's so they can use standard size tires...you spend money to make the car worth less.


eh, it's all personal choice. We don't all drive Rovers that look the same (or are stock). Someone want to fix a car up to their liking, let em. (but if I see the guy who put 22" rims on his 280zx in south phoenix, I may punch him).

[p m]

kinda like when guys pitch the stock rims on the 80's M6's so they can use standard size tires...you spend money to make the car worth less.
reminds me of myself giving my '95 LWB's rims to KVT and buying a set of older five-spokes...

[Blueboy]

reminds me of myself giving my '95 LWB's rims to KVT and buying a set of older five-spokes...

perhaps, yet, at least they both were at one time on a LWB Rangie and function basically the same.

out of curiosity, which ones were they?

the "Sparkle Silver Cyclone Alloy Wheel"?


Jaime

[p m]

yes, that's what they were.... I never liked the asymmetric design, so I picked the sort of flat five-spokes. Now that I have a 95 SWB with TVR (?) rims, and I want another set for the LWB. How did I miss Paul Grant's ad...

[Blueboy]

I never liked the asymmetric design

they kinda grow on you although the painted alloys on the '93 LWB were nice in the darker coolers.

Now that I have a 95 SWB with TVR (?) rims

yes, they would be the Tom Walkenshaw Racing (TWR) wheels.

is the full TWR package or just the wheels?

ok - hijack off!

I just like the older Rangies.


Jaime

[nosivad_bor]

they kinda grow on you although the painted alloys on the '93 LWB were nice in the darker coolers.



yes, they would be the Tom Walkenshaw Racing (TWR) wheels.

is the full TWR package or just the wheels?

ok - hijack off!

I just like the older Rangies.


Jaime

Jaime when are you stopping by I'm getting thirsty ?

[Blueboy]

damn good question.

we were supposed to be back first week of Nov and due to some meetings, I can't take the time off.

the way things are going, I'm not sure if we will get back this year which sucks as I know the fence line probably looks like shit on the property.

I still have your cell number (assuming you haven't changed it this year) and will holler at you if things change.

looks like you had a good time at the Cove.

best,

Jaime

[nosivad_bor]

cell is still the same - let me know if you need me to tend to that property would be a pleasure this time of year.

[Roverlady]

<sorry, hijack>

Rob, we've got two acres you can mow and weed-eat! :)

<hijack off>

[Roverlady]

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1031089

What is the fascination with gold rims? I've never understood (or really liked) gold trim on any vehicle. Those stock wheels were pretty nice looking!

[luvs2getmuddy]

I do try to refrain from posting on your comments, but I just can't help myslef when i am bored at work.

Wow, it is funny how JSQ, who thinks he knows all about BMW's(apparently), seems to only know what any web source would tell you about the M5. Nice going buddy. Please, stick to rovers.
BTW, the BBS rims are long gone my friends. Turbines never came with my car, instead I had style 68's.

So every person on the M5 board who has done BBTriflo exhaust(one of the most expensive exhaust systems for that car) and a chip, which is approximately 80% of the M5board members is a ricer. I knew it! What was I thinking wanting a car with those mods?
Also, FROM THE FACTORY for the NA market the M5 was 5 hp slower due to a more RESTRICTIVE exhaust, fool. Go read up on it.
THe least a full stainless steel exhaust system on the M5 would do is provide a marginal weight saving and a SWEEET melody out of the NA race spec'd S38 motor. Nothing wrong with that.

The chips? Useless, please go and read EAT's website and get back to me. These cars have tons to benefit from in a chip. Please go look at some Dyno sheets

SLS, when is new, is a fine thing, when it ages, is a POS. I can't justify spending 1000$+ on each shock for something that is essentially worthless, to me. I was actually looking for a car witha deleted SLS. :O

THE KN came with the car, is it worthless? Absolutely.

I am not going to even comment on your SSk comments, because you are fucking clueless.

O and please explain to me how that 6spd will exactly make my car a rocket ship, I seem to have missed that lesson. Maybe it is the shorter gears? Maybe I should ditch my short ratio'd rear diff too. I have not seen a single person find the 5spd insufficient and get rid of it on the s38b36 cars. If anything, the short gears and 5 spd keeps you right in the "fun" zone at around 3K when cruising. I won't deny it would be sweet and beneficial to have a 6spd, but please..
(Now I will wait for you to say- A 6spd is the best thing and you don't know what you are talking about and all M5's should have 6 spd even though they don't necessarily need it, bla bla bla.

And no, I won't leave the M5 a stock vehicle, there is tons to do to improve it, and I have.

If you are too dense to understand that, too fucking bad.
Stick to Rovers, please. Or are you one of those fucking purists who is too fucking narrowminded to understand eveolution, change, and personal preference? IT would all make sense then.
BTW, I changed the headunit to an Alpine. Please educate us how I ruined the car with that!

BTW, it is nice to see that bitterness makes people jaded.

[luvs2getmuddy]

When ever I buy a sweet car, the first thing I like to do is buy a Bra for the front end.

Reminds me of the Ford EXP.
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1063097

O so a bra is a terrible idea for the winter and salt debris here an Canada? You are a bright one.

Please, continue hanging off of JSQ's balls, maybe he'll give you the reach around.
You are, as everyone else here has said at some point, a Tool.

[luvs2getmuddy]

Here is how you twist things to prove a non existing point, to no one that cares.

Originally Posted by luvs2getmuddy
When mine blows up, chances are I will probably have the LT put in. Until then, I don't feel there is a need for me to jump the gun, considering I wheel fairly hard(for the truck)(not like in the pictures our dear friend has posted of my first outing with my, at the time, stock truck), and it seems to do well.



luvs2getmuddy "wheels fairly hard" so he's not going to put in an LT-230 until his Borg Warner V/C blows up???



See? I said for MY truck. It only has a 2" lift, what I do with it, is at times too much for that truck. But you are a fucking idiot, so you have poor comprehension skills.


If, as he claims, luvs2getmuddy was really a big-time hardcore fourwheeler he would have already smoked his V/C or stretched his chain just like all the people with real experience who are chiming in on this thread.

Please, without taking things out of context(meaning READ) tell me where I said I was hardcore wheeler?
In fact...
PS, I am not a 4x4 junkie/guru by any means. Not yet.

You need to wake the fuck up and shut the fuck up!

As I was stating, for the 15th time, the LT is superior, in MY experience, MY transfer case with a locked rear, on MY truck, has performed well. When that T-case, on MY truck Blows up, it will be replaced with an LT.
Understand?

I can't wait for the next post full of BS and belittleing(sp).

Please someone lock or delete this, it is getting rediculous.

[MUSKYMAN]

O so a bra is a terrible idea for the winter and salt debris here an Canada? You are a bright one.

Please, continue hanging off of JSQ's balls, maybe he'll give you the reach around.
You are, as everyone else here has said at some point, a Tool.

they use more salt in chicago then anywhere I have ever seen.

and yes bra's are idiotic...they destroy the paint under them because salt and grim migrate behind them and the slight movement of them acts like sand paper.

I have been around BMW's for a long long time...you can say anything you want and refrence any forum you like, but anything you do other then keeping a M5 stock decreases its value.

I have seen stock M5's bring more then a Dinan turbo'd M5...collectors dont want riced up cars.

[JSQ]

Please someone lock or delete this, it is getting rediculous.[/B]

I believe you're looking for Nathan Woods.
Sorry, this isn't that kind of forum.

We don't make the mistakes of retarded poseurs magically disappear.
Posts aren't edited.
Threads aren't locked.

luvs2getmuddy is going to have to live with all the stupid shit he's posted for as long as he's around.

Discoweb never forgets.

[jymmiejamz]

Discoweb never forgets.


LOL...

[D Chapman]

O so a bra is a terrible idea for the winter and salt debris here an Canada? You are a bright one.

Please, continue hanging off of JSQ's balls, maybe he'll give you the reach around.
You are, as everyone else here has said at some point, a Tool.


Yes, I think a Bra is a terrible idea. It looks like shit. They fit like shit. And they do more damage than good.

You want protection from salt? Ever heard of that new stuff that came out called Wax?

"Hanging of JSQ's balls"??? Nigga please. You're a fucking moron. Once you understand that you'll see why your comments are about as great as Steve Young. You don't know shit. Take a back seat and try to educate your self.

I bet you're part French.

[luvs2getmuddy]

they use more salt in chicago then anywhere I have ever seen.

and yes bra's are idiotic...they destroy the paint under them because salt and grim migrate behind them and the slight movement of them acts like sand paper.

I have been around BMW's for a long long time...you can say anything you want and refrence any forum you like, but anything you do other then keeping a M5 stock decreases its value.

I have seen stock M5's bring more then a Dinan turbo'd M5...collectors dont want riced up cars.

I will agree with you on the bra, hence why I haven;t purchased. Sounded like a good idea at the time, but after speakign with members, I degressed.

From a collectors stand point you are correct, a 100% stock M5 is the tits, for a collector(EDC, Nurburgring Susps, SLS, etc all present and functuoning). A garage queen.
Mine is a DD, so (to me)none of that applies/matters. One day, if I desire a collectors one, I will probably look to Germany for someone's collectors piece.

Did you see that one with like 3K mileson ebay a few months ago? That thing was a beauty, for the measly 35K$.

[luvs2getmuddy]

Yes, I think a Bra is a terrible idea. It looks like shit. They fit like shit. And they do more damage than good.

You want protection from salt? Ever heard of that new stuff that came out called Wax?

"Hanging of JSQ's balls"??? Nigga please. You're a fucking moron. Once you understand that you'll see why your comments are about as great as Steve Young. You don't know shit. Take a back seat and try to educate your self.

I bet you're part French.

Nigga please?
All of you require reading comprehension lessons.
All you people do is assume, and run with it like black sheep.

I admitted that the Lt is THE T-case to have.
I admitted I WILL get it one day.
I admitted/never claimed to be a GURU.
I posted my OPINION/Experience SO FAR.
I never questioned anyone's credibility, you know more than I do about rover, because you cared to put the time to learn.

You, took that information, blew it OUT of proportion with your friend, and took a genuine "Englighten me", becuase I do try to learn, and had a jerk fest.

The bra is a Hit and miss, there are cars thjat suffer more damage during the winter months than without one, and vice versa. I have decided NOT to get one.
I was merely inquiring.

And please, JSQ DC, keep your deficiency's to yourselves.

[Ho]

damn rookies.

================================================== =====
From: Terry Ratchev (tratchev@torontopubliclibrary.ca)
Sent:Fri 10/10/08 2:32 PM
To: hochung@discoweb.org
re: Deleting of thread


Please delete this thread, I am sick of being attacked and havign to defend myself.
http://discoweb.org/forums/showthread.php?t=52429&page=3

Terry Ratchev
Leaside Library

================================================== =====


REALLY???

[D Chapman]

What a dipshit.

[MUSKYMAN]

LOL

he is from canada...next thing he will threaten a law suit if its not deleted:rofl:

[p m]

goddamn....

[Mongo]

Here's what he should have said in the email to Ho



Dear Ho,
I'm don't have a clue but post stuff because it makes me feel like I'm important. I don't like it when people challenge or question anything I say because I am always right. So can I have access to any thread I post in to delete when people are rude, contest what i say or make me look like the true retard, oh wait, challenged, person that I am.

sincerely

[JSQ]

damn rookies.

================================================== =====
From: Terry Ratchev (tratchev@torontopubliclibrary.ca)
Sent:Fri 10/10/08 2:32 PM
To: hochung@discoweb.org
re: Deleting of thread


Please delete this thread, I am sick of being attacked and havign to defend myself.
http://discoweb.org/forums/showthread.php?t=52429&page=3

Terry Ratchev
Leaside Library

================================================== =====


REALLY???

I wonder what else Terry would like done for him?
Maybe go to work, make a car payment or brush his teeth?
You know, all the things adults do for themselves.

[luvs2getmuddy]

I wonder what else Terry would like done for him?
Maybe go to work, make a car payment or brush his teeth?
You know, all the things adults do for themselves.

That would be nice.
Please and thanks.:yawn:

And YES, really.

[GregH]

.

[JSQ]

Alpha Base, this is Bob McKenzie.
We have a fleshy headed mutant in the Forbidden Zone.